HYLFIRE: New huge mod for WoTN - Ice'n Fire

[eucrysty]

Did you finish the other mod you said you are developing ?

[raknefne]

We are working on it. So far there are 5 new maps with 12 undergrounds and 26 new arenas. It is as close to as a random mapgenerator that can be done with KB. We will post when it is ready for test, perhaps you are interesting in testing? But not yet.

We are making the mod inspired by the Heroes of might and magic 3 mapgenerator
.After first map you can go anywhere in the World, since creatures grow in strength when you grow. All creatures are random mix, also random if there're a hero in army and if they can "sniff" you etc.

Also you will be able to build the starting Castle up with Buildings inside, just like in Heroes3... and much more...

[eucrysty]

Sounds very interesting.i ll wait for you to complete it .I appreciate your dedication.

[Belcanzor]

This is like Red Sands? With a new companion and unit rank?
Why so big? Textures?
Red Sand extended is 10% size :p
I appreciate your work. In few weeks, I hope, end my Red Sands Ext run and try this one.
Can you add a torrent link for this mod?

[raknefne]

You can find a link to Hylfire at the page 1 in this thread. Or download the new version 1.1 (after skipping add): http://adf.ly/1dsgZe

The size of our mod, is partly because we havent cleaned up files not needed, but also because we are modding a mod. Ice and fire is like a mod to normal WoTn.

There are modded until greenwort in text and quests, but the skill system, acrimaldo etc continues. You only have a few open skills at start, each time you level up you can get random skills which you then can develop. No prereq. for skills. Info is at top of this thread... reduced the amount of undead and made random enemies instead. Companion is like the pet/companion in red sand, but you choose between 3 which is random of 7 different ones!! The rank system is the same for the units, like in wotn or red sand, but goes to lvl25. Wotn must have copied system from REd Sand...

[raknefne]

For the WoTn-Ice'n Fire mods Hylfire and Bonfire.

This info can also be downloaded as Notepad file: Trooptalk.txt

After battle your mentor, Acrimaldo, might give you an oppurtunity to talk to your troops. You can get a boost from your level 1-3 troops, anything from gold, rage, mana, new units etc.
That means if you carry for instance Miners in your army or in the Reserve you can get 1.500 gold pr. hero level. If you carry Gardeners they can change into Royal thorns etc.

Here is a list of creatures that will give a bonus in the troop talk:


HUMAN:
Gardener: 1 Royal thorn for each 5 Gardener (5:1)
Robber: 1.000 Gold pr. Hero level. Turns into Maurauder (1:1)
Maurauder: Half turns into either Witchhunter or Assasin of your choice (2:1)
Guardsman: Either: +2 Defense once / turns into Knights (2:1)
Bowman: Turn into Rangers (2:1)
Inqvisitor: Turn into Rune mage from around Hero level 10. Can't remember the numbers 5:1 or 3:1 or?
Priest: Either: Turn to inkvisitor (2:1) / make 3 Healing scrolls

ELF:
Dryad: Turns into Ice Dryad (1:1)
Fairy: Turns into Sun Fairies (2:1)
Were-elf: +2 Mana and turn into Werewolves (1:1)
Faun: +2 Mana Limit in Bonfire (is 10% Mana in Hylfire)
Druid: Either: Lose 1 Mana Limit but get 3 Magic Runes / gain 1 Mana Limit and transform into Soothsayers (2:1)
Elf shooter: Either: Turn into Rangers (3:1) / Learn the skill Quickdraw once
Unicorn white: Turn into Black unicorn (2:1) and gain 5 Crystals and 1 Magic Rune.


VIKING RACE:
Slingers: Either: Gain +1 Attack once / Double in numbers / learn the skill Quickdraw
Viking: Turns into Berserkers (2:1)
Berserker: Either learn the skill Berserker / fill up your Rage to max.
Axethrower: +3 Magic Axe scroll
Skald: Either get 3 "good" scrolls like Healing / get 3 "evil" scrolls


ICE ELF
none


DEAD LIZARD:
Undead Gobot: Double up in numbers


LIZARD:
Gobot: Either: Double up / turn into Adult Gobots (2:1)
Adult Gobot : Double up in numbers
Gorgul: Turn into Gorg.Shamans (2:1) and 50% chance of +1 Might Rune in the proces.
Gorg. Shaman: A random Recipy!


DWARF:
Miner: 1.500 Gold pr Hero level. Lose 1 Miner in the proces.
Dwarf (lvl 2): 5 scrolls like weakness or haste.
Foreman: 50% chance of an item. Hero lvl. 1-9=Lvl. 1 item. Hero lvl. 10-19=Lvl. 1-2 item etc.


ORC:
Catapult Either: +1 Attack once / +1 Rage Limit
Goblin Gives +1 Rage Limit and turns into Furious Goblin
Furious Goblin Gives +1 Rage Limit and turns into Goblin
Gobl. Shaman Either: +2 Rage Limit / +1 Might Rune
Catapult Either: Gain +1 Attack once / +1 Rage Limit
Orc (lvl2) Either: Turn into Orc Hunter (2:1) / Turn into Orc Veterans (3:1)


UNDEAD:
Skeleton Gives leadership: 1-9=10 Leadership, 10-19=20 Leadership, 20-29=40 Leadership, 30+=60 Leadership
Archer Gives leadership up to 30 or so. ONe of these two doesnt work in Hylfire, fixed in Bonfire.
Zombie Either: Turn to Zombie2 (1:1) / +5 Rage once but lose 1 from each stack in army.
Zombie2 Either: +3 Plague scrolls / +5 Rage once but lose 1 from each stack in army.
Ghost Either: Turn into Ghost3 (1:1) / Lose overall 10% leadership on the hero but gain -20% leadership requirment for Ghost (max -50% total)
Ghost3 Increase in numbers equal to Hero Level in numbers.
Vampire Turn in to Anc.Vampire (2:1)
Pirate ghost If you are in "need" he can dig for treasure: if you have less then 100 Crystal then you can get 10 Crystals etc. for Gold, runes etc.



NEUTRAL:
Cave Spider 10% Crystal increase.
SpiderOffspring Either: Turn into Ice Spider (9:1) / Firespider (5:1) / Cave-Undead-Venom Spider (2:1)
Ice Spider Crystals depending on the current hero lvl.divided with 3 + 5
Ice Thorn Crystals depending on the current hero lvl.divided with 3 + 5
Swamp Snake Turn into Royal Snake (3:1)
Snake (red) Turn into Royal Snake (2:1)
Royal Snake Random amount of Snake eggs (can be all 3 - there are also Royal Snake Eggs)
Pirate 1.000 Gold pr. Hero level then turns into Robbers (1:1)
Sea Dog 1.500 Gold pr. Hero level
Witch Hunter 3 Lynch Mob scrolls.
Griffin A random egg. Could be just Griffin egg but also something bigger... (dragon/tirex cant remember but rare)
Thorns Turn into Royal Thorn (5:1)
Thorn Hunter Turn into Royal Thorn (5:1)
Cudly Abon. +1 Mana Limit
Chaos Dragon Either: 50% chance to learn the skill CHAOS MAGIC / +1 Rage Limit
DragonFireFly Turn into Chaos Dragon (10:1)
LakeDragonFly Turn into Green Dragon (10:1)
Rat +1 Rage limit

There can be minor changes between the 2 mods, let me know if you encounter something different in your game. We don't plan to make more updates for the Hylfire mod. Bonfire is not yet released.
-Rakne Fne: uffemander@gmail.com

[Xev]

While waiting for a King's Bounty 2 (will it ever come?) I checked KB forum and discovered this big mod. Although I'm not a big friend of game mods which are often unbalanced there were some facts who forced me to give it a try with HLYFIRE.
- Don't play impossible, it's too hard ...
- more random inspired by Heroes III
- 15 different classes and 8 companions
This sounded good for me to start a game.
Installation was no problem, it was well documented how to do it. I played HLYFIRE on a iMac with Parallels/Win7/Steam and it runs well.
I choosed impossible because of the warning not to use this setting and to give it a greater kick the plan was to play no loss - i'm a no loss specialist
Several classes looked great and I went the mage way with a Witch Hunter. After 2h playing I could choose a companion and took the Scary Abomination.

BEGINNING PHASE - STRATEGY
1st trick is to get as fast as possible 250 leadership to get a Dragon of Chaos from the main castle. This can be the hardest part of a no loss game. After getting a chaos dragon the gameplay becomes easy. Dragon of Chaos refills his HP after each turn (not documentated). With 6 initiative he will start the turn and with 6 speed he's able to avoid melee contact and breathe fire to much bigger stacks without getting a damage.
As a witch hunter you get the spell Lynch Mob which summons a very big stack of good creatures which will help to bind ranged enemies.
It's a good decision to build up Trap Spell from the Distortion Magic - i had luck to get it very early. Traps helps with enemy ranged units who try to get away from my summoned creatures. In the endgame these traps will do around 20k damage and kill big stacks of archdemons or black dragons! BUT: you will never get extra traps like in the original game.
With 1 Dragon of Chaos - no other units if you go no loss!!! - and the spell Lynch Mob it's easy to get your ship next to the castle.
Get as many Lake dragon Flies as you can! Put them into reserve and and the day will come where you can change them into Green Dragons!
If you have 150 flies in reserve (don't put them in the unit slots or you get losses) you will get 15 Green Dragons - it's a random event after combat.
After getting green dragons you can throw away your chaos dragons. Green Dragons are the only unit which will fight for you for a long time. The companion is an additional help.
The companion: I choosed Scary Abomination which sometimes does good spell damage but often spells nothing. This companion becomes much stronger later in the game. In the beginning phase you will like it as a welcome target for enemy ranged units.

SPIDER - STRATEGY
Spider Boss killed in 3 rounds with no loss!
How? The trick is Lynch Mob
In 1st round I used the Lynch Mob spell and it summoned some Witch Hunters.
The Witch Hunter put his skill Magic Block on the spider boss. The spider boss summoned several spider on the battlefield and got endless damage waves from magic block until he was killed at once!!!
May be it's a bug or not - If the player is forced to accept events like "you loss 10% of your gold" or "no skills at level up" without loading game then this trick is ok.

ADVANCED GAME AFTER SPIDER - STRATEGY
Main goal is to get access to demon gate. You'll need both artifacts.
Your army are your Green Dragons. I had great luck to get 2 Archdemons in a shop. If they are splitted to 2 single archdemons you can fill your rage.
Rage is your big friend. Try to raise rage limit with a Goblin Shaman or a Dragon of Chaos in your reserve if you are low there.
By far the best unit for reserve stack is the Faun. He will give you after a random upgrade event: +10% of your mana limit!!! And later once again 10% and another 10% .... mana limit will raise beyond 200 very fast!
Best troops are Green, Red, Black Dragons and Archdemons. They are all level 5. Put fear on enemy and you are safe. The only unit under level 5 which worth to use are the Demonologists (lvl4). They can resurrect all your troops except Black Dragons. You can copy with Phantom Spell to use Resurrect skill again and so on.
Get Higher Magic Skill to cast 2 spells!
Tactic 1: (1st Round) Copy Green Dragons with Phantom Spell. Cast the big spell Geyser. Fly green dragons to block ranged units and replenish mana. (2nd Round) Cast a 2nd copy of green dragons and another Geyser.
Tactic 2: If it's possible to Fear all enemy troops (no undeads) then this is the better tactic. Cast Fear on every enemy unit beginning with ranged. After all are feared you control the battlefield and the rest is easy!

SKILLS (Before Spider)
MAGIC: Distortion Magic 3, Chaos Magic 2, Creation 1-2
MIND: Diversions 3, all other are worthless
MIGHT: Anger 3

SKILLS (After Spider to endgame)
MAGIC: Distortion Magic 3, Chaos Magic 3, Creation 5, Higher Magic 2, Concentration 5
MIND: Diversions 5, Diplomacy 5, all other worthless
MIGHT: Anger 5, Action Rage 4, Onslaught 1

SPELLS
Trap (20k in endgame)
Phantom
Fear
Geyser
Exorcism
Slow
You won't need any other spell!

CONCLUSION
I was impressed by the mod authors to see what is possible. HLYFIRE is not only a simple changed stats/skills mod. They changed much more: quests, events, spells and so on. They introduced 15 classes which I would like to see in the original too. You can choose from several companions with different skills. Many units can be upgraded or give a bonus.
Lvl 4-5 units have been weakened in healthpoints to force the player to use Lvl 1-3 units. But: Leadership of lvl 5 units are much more lowered too, so what now?We have some new spells and many old spells have been changed to fit into this lvl1-3 system.
But exactly this went wrong. The weakness of HLYFIRE is the IMBALANCE. Some skills (Concentration, Creation, Anger) are overpowered. Too much damage on damage spells possible. Scare Abomination is in the later game totaly overpowered and does often 40-60k damage or nothing. That's too much damage. Random is great but random damage of a unit should never range from "close to nothing" to "kill'em all". Mana limits get much too high with faunts. It has been never so easy to succeed with lvl5 units than in HLYFIRE.
I've finished the Witch Hunter class with impossible and no loss. Gold was never a problem as predicted by the authors. No loss does not need gold! It was very easy and also much easier than in the original game to win impossible without loosing a single unit. May be other classes are harder and I had some luck with choosing Witch Hunter/Abomination. But the motivation is very low to test another class/companion combination.
The authors references to Heroes III as source for randomizing. I know Heroes very very well, maps were randomized, units were randomized ... but the random of HLYFIRE is much more like Monopoly. Random Events like "you loose 10% of gold" are not good for a strategy game. Kings Bounty is not a gambling game.

PROS
15 classes
8 companions
random units everywhere
new spells
upgradable units

CONS
too easy to succeed
random with too extreme range
overpowered spells
overpowered skills

[raknefne]

Thx for your long review!

The Spider boss: this is a WoTn bug, not Hylfire, I tried it in WoTn when you bring just a stack of witchhunters, you win in 2-3 rounds... we have fixed many bugs from wotn, but didn't have time for doing this...

General: We have actually only tested the game until level 30 or so... so I'm not surprised there can be some imbalances - and thx for pointing that out. Especially with the companions. It is quite funny, in an earlier post a guy said the game was too hard and gave up on the game... gold is more difficult early, not later, that u r right about. The Scary Abonimation along with a 3rd level unit Abonination, yes, are having too much randomness with its spell!
Level 4-5 are too strong, yes, and in the new Bonfire mod, they need more exp to get... and you can probably only play until lvl 20, only 9 maps all in all...

One big downfall in Hylfire, is, that it has only been tested by ourselves... I always get bored after some time playing the same char, in all games I play, also World of Warcraft, so I don't got so far in games...

Reloading for a better skill choice will always make the mod imbalanced... it was not possible for us to do without you could reload for another skill choice. Faun for Trooptalk and Scary abonimation companion are probably the most imbalanced in this mod, so you have really found the "errors", thx for that! If you should change your mind about playing again, I'd be interested if you wanna playtest Bonfire when it is ready...

Faun has been changed in Bonfire to +2 mana... We will reduce concentration and Anger skills too. Level 4 are 450 leaderships instead of 350, level 5's are 600 leadership instead of 450-500. Even thinking of giving lvl5 7-800 leadership.

Thank you for pointing all these things out for us! It helps balancing our next mod a lot!

[Xev]

When Bonfire is ready for testing, I'd be proud if you count me in.

BTW. there is a simple but very effective trick to start with endless money: at start you have nothing - no money, no troops. So you cannot loose anything. Attack next enemy at gate and you start over and over again with +200g. The bug is that you do not start with 200g but with +200g. Easy to get 100k within 1-2h. I didn't need such money for my no-lost-game

[raknefne]

Originally Posted by Xev

BTW. there is a simple but very effective trick to start with endless money: at start you have nothing - no money, no troops. So you cannot loose anything. Attack next enemy at gate and you start over and over again with +200g. The bug is that you do not start with 200g but with +200g. Easy to get 100k within 1-2h. I didn't need such money for my no-lost-game

I think you can do that in a normal game too. You get new troops in a normal game after death, and when they die you get Gold according to army size.
It's the same in Bonfire. And the way we have made both Hylfire and Bonfire, you can always cheat if you want, by reloading when skills are offered, or reload for scrolls before a fight. We cannot make it 100% bullet proof. If you wanna cheat go ahead, but it is considered cheating - just like using cheat codes in our mod (because we are not aware of anything to prevent this).

And I'm glad to hear you'll test Bonfire. I'd like to know about balances of level 4-5 from you, because that was one thing you pointed out. Level 5 is now 600-800 leadership requirement instead of 450. I can see that now, it was too overpowered in HYlfire. Level 4 need 100 more Leadership in Bonfire. I also made a post in the Bonfire test forum about reducing the skills you pointed out in your review (post no.78 ). You nailed the weaknesses, thanks! At the moment we don't have plans for making a patch. Maybe after a Bonfire playtest, it's rather easy for us to copy skill, creatures lvl 4-5 and spells over to Hylfire from Bonfire.