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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #111  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:09 AM
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Feathered_IV Feathered_IV is offline
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Originally Posted by csThor View Post
I've said before that I favor the "Red Baron II" style for a campaign. I don't really want "roleplaying" in the sense of the word, but I want to play the role of a pilot in WW2 - I get assigned to a unit, I get my mission orders, I fly, I try to stay alive and I rise though the ranks.
What happens if you rise in rank? Will you just get a warm fuzzy feeling and fly at the front of the group? Would a rise in rank from Staffel Kaptain up to Kommodore be completely meaningless in your SoW? How should such a promotion effect your game? How would it effect, "the role of a pilot in WW2"?
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  #112  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:18 AM
csThor csThor is offline
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Rank per se doesn't mean you get more previleges. I mean you can be an Oberleutnant, but you're not Staffelkapitän when there's a Hauptmann leading it
Responsibilities should depend on position - wingman, element leader, flight leader, squadron commander, Gruppenkommandeur, ...

However with virtually nothing known on the campaign I prefer to keep myself from dreaming. Not expecting anything cannot get you disappointed
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  #113  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:46 AM
Bobb4 Bobb4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Feathered_IV View Post
What happens if you rise in rank? Will you just get a warm fuzzy feeling and fly at the front of the group? Would a rise in rank from Staffel Kaptain up to Kommodore be completely meaningless in your SoW? How should such a promotion effect your game? How would it effect, "the role of a pilot in WW2"?
I think everyone is losing sight of the fact that this a Battle of Britain simulation. Taking place in a very short time period, only a few months at most.
So ranking up etc would seem a bit of a major stretch.
One would hope the SOW features stats recording server side and that this is expanded expecially as more campaigns (expansions) are added.
I honestly expect to see life (active ai) around the airfields in the initial release as this is a next gen flight sim and something that would be expected.
What is the point of running to AA guns if you are not protecting a living vibrant airfield.
Again this is purely a Battle of Britain thing where airfields were mostly permenant structures.
I would obviouly expect a pilots log book and lists of claims, confirmed kills etc.
But all this is purely me, me, me and somehow I doubt Oleg really cares what i want
This sim has been many years in the making and I trust the developers, publishers all know what works and what does not.
A sim like WOV Bob while stunning too look at, failed because they ignored the online community.
While it may be fun to shoot down ai at some point you will want to take down your fellow human and with the proliferation of broadband that is now possible.
I fly ADW from South Africa with a ping of 250-290 and still enjoy the ride. I shoot people down and get shot down often. Honestly once I flew online for the first time I never touched the game offline much again.
The only time I do is to practice take-off and landings in various planes and bombing practice.
This I can mainly attribute to IL2's totally lacking "soul" in offline play as one poster posted previously.
All
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  #114  
Old 06-11-2008, 11:10 AM
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Feathered_IV Feathered_IV is offline
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"Rank per se doesn't mean you get more previleges. I mean you can be an Oberleutnant, but you're not Staffelkapitän when there's a Hauptmann leading it
Responsibilities should depend on position - wingman, element leader, flight leader, squadron commander, Gruppenkommandeur, ...

However with virtually nothing known on the campaign I prefer to keep myself from dreaming. Not expecting anything cannot get you disappointed"



I know what you mean there.

I'm hoping that by keeping it in circulation, the powers that be might consider some wider options.

I guess being a Kanone of greater rank would have bestowed some perks that would translate nicely into a flight sim. Getting priority on equipment, aircraft and the like for the unit. A well serviced personal aircraft with less chance of mechanical failure than the latest sprog's. The chance to request a transfer (and maybe even have it granted). Or the chance to poach experienced pilots from other units. Your input on a tactical level would be respected and considered before a mission...

It's details like that that I support, certainly not cliched roleplaying, and geeforce-resistance player powerups and whatnot.

Bobb4, you are right about Il-2's offline experience lacking soul. That is why so many onliners are coming in here to say how much they don't care for it. They know it sucks and so do I.
I just don't think it has to be that way, and I don't want to see Luthier produce a half-hearted, makeshift, campaign experience for SoW.

Last edited by Feathered_IV; 06-11-2008 at 11:22 AM.
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  #115  
Old 06-12-2008, 01:16 AM
leitmotiv leitmotiv is offline
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I recall an old Avalon Hill Sherman Tank board game "simulator" from the late '80's which had a campaign. You started out as a nobody in the company, in the lousiest Sherman version in the company, and, if you survived, did good, and rose in rank, you received a better Sherman versions. Exactly what F_IV is urging here. The best you could achieve was command of the company, and a late-model Sherman, with the 76mm gun, and the superior suspension.

Last edited by leitmotiv; 06-12-2008 at 01:21 AM.
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  #116  
Old 10-27-2009, 03:22 AM
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Feathered_IV Feathered_IV is offline
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Originally Posted by virre89 View Post
And with the new engine it will be more realistic than ever.
But i agree on that more factors could play a bigger roll , still it dosn't matter for me.
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Originally Posted by Feathered_IV View Post
Sheesh! Alright then. For the benefit of online players who have neither the imagination, nor the ambition to think of anything beyond what we have now, I'll spoon feed you another concept.

Working Radar Control in Online Play:


You log on to an SoW server and join the game. A mission is already in progress. On the briefing map, you can see that there are plots all over the board.

You select RAF and choose a Spitfire flying out of Hornchurch. The server auto-generates you the callsign Baker, Blue Three.

Entering the game, you taxi out of your revetment and scramble immediately. Climbing hard, en-route for Dover you ask control for an intercept vector. You key in the commands for this (promising yourself you will get around to sorting out the voice activation system one day soon. Everybody says it's amazing).

You key in: Tab> 1> 3> 2. "Hello Control> This is Baker Blue three> Requesting vector."
Using voice samples similar to those in the old Il-2, the AI controller replies, "Hello Baker Blue three. Steer 160. Bandits inbound at angels zero. Range 40 miles. Over" The AI controller has appointed you a "channel" based on your location on the map. Not everybody hears the same control messages, thus avoiding clutter. A pair of Hurricanes nearby have heard this however, and change course to intercept.

"Hello Baker Blue Three. This is control. Are you recieving me? Over."

Ah whoops! Unlike the Il-2 series, this controller actually requires a response to communications. If you do not respond to calls he will keep calling you, before finally giving you up as lost.
You key in: Tab> 1> 3> 6. "This is Baker Blue Three. Received and understood."

Minutes later, speeding across the feilds of Kent, you key in a request for an update from control.
"Hello Baker Blue three. Steer 160. Contact faint. Bandits at angels zero. Range 20 miles. Over"
They are holding course then. Twenty miles would put them just north of New Romney...

Suddenly the AI control breaks in:
"Hello Baker Blue three. Bandits now heading two zero. Steer oh seven oh. Buster!"

You acknowledge and open the throttle wide, swinging onto the new heading. Your heart skips a beat as two Hurricanes flash across your nose.

"Hello Baker Blue three. This is control. You are right on top of them."
You dip your wing. Can't see a bloody thing. No, wait...there they are! Three fast moving shapes. Darting across the town of Ashford. Rooftop height. Me110's from Erpro-210, making a run for Biggin Hill. You key in the last call - a tallyho to Control. Saftey catches off. Gunsight on. As you half roll into the dive, the gunner of the rearmost 110 is already firing......
Oleg, seeing as you are around a little bit at the moment, is there anything in this thread that might work it's way into the SoW series?
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  #117  
Old 10-27-2009, 08:18 AM
hiro hiro is offline
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Wow, interesting thread! Lots of great ideas.

CS thanks for explaining the mentality behind IL-2 and Oleg.

I would want BOB SOW to give us a new level of DM, FM, bullet / round physics (and other weapons like bombs, napalm, rocket, flak, AAA physics too)

And keep its strengths (that IL-2 is known for). Add some great sounds (like DB engine sounds like one, the merlins sound like the ones at the airshows etc) along with the new hotness graphics . . .

I'd rather have a solid WW 2 sim along the lines that IL-2 was known for than have a BOB SOW having a watered down FM (or a rehash of IL-2's) or planeset because time was spent developing RPG elements.

I wouldn't want BOB SOW to lose out many of the core strengths that IL-2 had, in place of "fluff" stuff like RPG officer and a gentleman, or mechanical / inventory management / squadron planeset lobbying / air field design simulation / personnel allocation. Leave that to RPG's, RTS, or games like Civilization or Empire series . . .

If a game tries to have too many elements it becomes a jack of all trades and a master of none, and its mediocre. Like Transformers 2 movie, tried too many plot elements and it just became a big fat mess instead of the blockbuster it was anticipated to be.

For roleplaying game stuff or FPS stuff, there are dedicated games to that will do those elments better than a flight sim could ever dream of.

We're pilots here. Not Generals. If you want to do that, I hear Star Craft 2 is coming along nicely.

I do agree with Feathered in that it would be nice to fly a variety of missions like recon and if you fly recon and something slips in or you didn't get the right area, this will have an effect in future missions or what not if you've got a dynamic campaign. Or maybe a test pilot, testing a "new" prototype.

Provided that this variety it is within the combat flight simulation realm. Sure, trying to fit as many planes inside your escort carrier via tetris style rearragement can be fun, and it is plane related but puzzles aren't really a flight sim element.

Also it would be nice to have the interactive air / ground / sea previously mentioned.

Like say if you and your dive bomber squadron got lazy flew over a Japanese airbase enroute to bomb some troop transports, several minutes into the mission, the Japanese would launch fighters to catch you.

But if you coordinated with your buddies from the army and a that base was bombed and cratered, you might just get flak as a greeting.

Or if a carrier group gets jumped by torpedo bombers, they start to zig zag etc . . .


Yes to the AI being improved and better. But AI will always be AI, and until humanity advances to where we have autonomous robots like Star Trek's Data or Ghost In the Shell SAC, you'll have AI that doesn't use tactics or does repetitive and predictive actions.

I also agree in providing the best method and in game tools for players to design their own campaigns and have control over AI and many other features so they can get the campaign clockwork perfect.

I'd say that option for briefing, but that's is paperwork and boring (like in role playing games to improve axe skill you have to chop 20000 logs). No one wants to play a game to grind endlessly. Or having to click the ground crew and get planes ready and you have to get things in order like playing a session of Myst or some other adventure game.

It is interesting to some, but BOB SOW is about flying.
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  #118  
Old 10-27-2009, 10:13 AM
Dozer_EAF19 Dozer_EAF19 is offline
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A great sim, and great "RPG-ish peripheral bits", aren't mutually exclusive. What is needed is the ability for third-party applications to "watch" what the sim's doing and possibly feed back into it. Then imaginative new stuff can be handled by community-built applications. Will there be a SDK for SoW??
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  #119  
Old 10-27-2009, 11:32 AM
HFC_Dolphin HFC_Dolphin is offline
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To be honest, I wish in the end we see a lot of RPG elements in the game.
They "cost" nothing, but they add a lot to many of us.

Last edited by HFC_Dolphin; 10-27-2009 at 11:37 AM.
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  #120  
Old 10-27-2009, 01:44 PM
BadAim BadAim is offline
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I really enjoyed the scenario in one of the COD's (or was it MOH?) where you were an air crewman that got shot down and had to find your way home (actually in that instance, it was finding help to get home) but that would be something interesting as an option. Actually from what I have seen I don't see why that couldn't happen or even be part of the development. Alternately you could, say land and finish off the guy you just shot down with your pistol (or strangle him if your flying red).
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