Friday 2010-12-03 Dev. update and Discussion

[K_Freddie]

ivagiglie:
While agreeing with most of your comments, I hope you realise that the GUI is not your standard windows GUI, but a DirectX GUI which is as much workload as the game itself, to develop.

Integrating this into the 3D environment of the map making, is a mission. Not to mention simplifying it for the 'lowest common denominator'.

Oleg at the moment is streaks ahead of the competition, and as we've all discovered..... it is difficult at first, but it's easiest in the long run.

[buz13]

Well, I figure after a few months I will perhaps know what I'm doing....
Na...that's dreaming.
Extensive settings!......good thing I have been saving up for all these years for a new computer.

[Seeker]

Dissapointed.

Sure, there's lot's of great new functionality that those that mastered the current FMB will love.

I'm sure it'll produce great missions. But it's still the FMB! It's just been modded a bit.

And that's the problem, while being undoubtedably powerfull, the IL-2 FMB is a sucky program with a horrible interface and lousy documentation.

Yes, dedicated users can do wonders with it, just as they can in Unix apps.

But if that was enough in the 21 century there'd be no ipad.

I hope the rest of the game interface is better than this.

Nothing in this week's update makes the mission building functions more accessable or welcoming.

That, coupled with rumours of static campaigns only; will severely limit SOW's replayability in my view.

A modern game should be able to generate it's own content (dynamic campaigns!), and content generation should not be this complex at the lower levels.

It seems DCG will still be the way to go, which is sad after so much time in development.

[nearmiss]

I have built missions and campaigns for close to 10 years and helped develop mission builder tools/programs.

The FMB is improved a great deal from what I see. The sort functions alone will save hours of time building missions.

I suggest you take your negative banter to another forums. I doubt seriously it will be any better accepted elsewhere.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Dissapointed.

Sure, there's lot's of great new functionality that those that mastered the current FMB will love.

I'm sure it'll produce great missions. But it's still the FMB! It's just been modded a bit.

And that's the problem, while being undoubtedably powerfull, the IL-2 FMB is a sucky program with a horrible interface and lousy documentation.

Yes, dedicated users can do wonders with it, just as they can in Unix apps.

But if that was enough in the 21 century there'd be no ipad.

I hope the rest of the game interface is better than this.

Nothing in this week's update makes the mission building functions more accessable or welcoming.

That, coupled with rumours of static campaigns only; will severely limit SOW's replayability in my view.

A modern game should be able to generate it's own content (dynamic campaigns!), and content generation should not be this complex at the lower levels.

It seems DCG will still be the way to go, which is sad after so much time in development.

I have build countless complex missions for my squad over 7 years. The IL2 FMB is one of the best mission builders I have found in any game and very easy to use once you get the hang of it. I am excited about all the new possibilities and I am happy everything what was good in it stays.

[Fafnir_6]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I have built missions and campaigns for close to 10 years and helped develop mission builder tools/programs.

The FMB is improved a great deal from what I see. The sort functions alone will save hours of time building missions.

I suggest you take your negative banter to another forums. I doubt seriously it will be any better accepted elsewhere.

This is the problem exactly, you (and Nausicaa) are experienced mission builders and no doubt this update is like early Xmas for you. For those of us who are just getting into mission building or who have only dabbled, the FMB of IL-2 (let alone this new mission builder with all the added functionality) has a very steep learning curve. I look at this update and see the power of this new mission builder as added potential so far on the horizon for me that I doubt I'll ever really get there. We haven't actually seen Battle of Britain yet so I can't comment on what sort of tutorials or documentation will be present but I will say that Seeker is spot on about the quality of the interface and documentation of the current IL-2 mission builder. Quite plainly, it stinks for first-timers.

I haven't seen the rumors about the lack of dynamic campaigns in BoB but the existence of the dynamic campaigns has helped mitigate the FMB learning curve in IL-2 for many of us. The efforts of community members such as yourselves also helps with this. Thanks . Seeker raises a valid concern about BoB's replayability for mission building newbs, should the rumors prove accurate. Perhaps 1C should hire Lowengrin if there is a problem. If the rumor is true, it could turn off a large and potentially lucrative gamer segment that is needed to generate the revenue for all the expansions you and I wish for in BoB's engine.

It was not negative banter but concerns raised in good faith ( I'd be lying if I said I didn't share them).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Redwan

I see that I have been waiting for 1 week just to see .... boring maps ...
After the last week's update session with BoB menus, I would have expected something more graphic/exiting.


I know, "I dont have the time, I'm tired", or what ever excuse we already heard here ... but is it so difficult to start the beta version and push on PRINT SCREEN on some ongoing air action ? I cant' believe that Oleg cannot delegate such an easy task to one of his guy's if he doesn't have the time himself.

Another one for my ignore list, don't worry Red, your in good company.

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Fafnir_6

This is the problem exactly, you (and Nausicaa) are experienced mission builders and no doubt this update is like early Xmas for you. For those of us who are just getting into mission building or who have only dabbled, the FMB of IL-2 (let alone this new mission builder with all the added functionality) has a very steep learning curve. I look at this update and see the power of this new mission builder as added potential so far on the horizon for me that I doubt I'll ever really get there. We haven't actually seen Battle of Britain yet so I can't comment on what sort of tutorials or documentation will be present but I will say that Seeker is spot on about the quality of the interface and documentation of the current IL-2 mission builder. Quite plainly, it stinks for first-timers.

I haven't seen the rumors about the lack of dynamic campaigns in BoB but the existence of the dynamic campaigns has helped mitigate the FMB learning curve in IL-2 for many of us. The efforts of community members such as yourselves also helps with this. Thanks . Seeker raises a valid concern about BoB's replayability for mission building newbs, should the rumors prove accurate. Perhaps 1C should hire Lowengrin if there is a problem. If the rumor is true, it could turn off a large and potentially lucrative gamer segment that is needed to generate the revenue for all the expansions you and I wish for in BoB's engine.

It was not negative banter but concerns raised in good faith ( I'd be lying if I said I didn't share them).

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

Here's the thing though, Mate. The guys who will actually put the time into building good solid missions (and more than one or two) will take the time to learn how to use this interface. It really isn't that hard if you take some time to seek out the resources. I'll grant that better tutorial info from 1c would be nice, but the simple fact is that most of the user made content for some time will be from the "old hands" anyway. Just my $.02.

[Flying_Nutcase]

Hi Oleg,

A lot of great new features; looking really good. These features would be nice:

- File | Open opens at the last opened directory.
- The Object window remains opened after running the game from the FMB then returning to the FMB.
- Map icons show the direction of the runways.
- Waypoints show heading angle and altitude when selected. This would help a lot with writing briefings.
- A waypoint route can be summarised in text, again for briefings. Kind of like SOW's version of "Get Directions" in Google Maps, lol.
- A print option from the Briefing screen.
- As mentioned by others, at least the ability to add images to briefings (for 'recon' and 'intel' photos). Being able to add video would be a nice extra, but photos would be a huge improvement over just text.
- Biggest Request: Please remain open to feedback after release and budget time to add further features in the future! Thank you!!

Other Things
- Weathering and Fuel would be faster to enter as specific numbers rather than fiddling around with a slider control; or use both.
- "View a list of all objects in the mission." would read better as "View Mission Objects".
- Does 'Delete All' have a confirmation step?! Two?

Thanks for reading,


Flying Nutcase

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by Redwan

I see that I have been waiting for 1 week just to see .... boring maps ...
After the last week's update session with BoB menus, I would have expected something more graphic/exiting.


I know, "I dont have the time, I'm tired", or what ever excuse we already heard here ... but is it so difficult to start the beta version and push on PRINT SCREEN on some ongoing air action ? I cant' believe that Oleg cannot delegate such an easy task to one of his guy's if he doesn't have the time himself.

*sigh*

Use imagination.

I've been flying BoB since 2005.

P.S. The answer is that it probably is more difficult than you think. Oleg's team is busy building the sim (while Oleg is handling PR - which he is very good at - and collecting information). Basically, avoid expecting too much - Oleg didn't have to post any updates.