Friday 2010-06-25 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[philip.ed]

What I like about BoB2 is, when playing the commander, hearing he waafs's and the controllers vectoring flights etc and also hearing the relative raf squadron leader's answer.
As the player, it's nice to be in conversation with the controller and also to hear what's going on around you when the map is shown. You can even hear them moving in the background! As footsteps can be heard as messages are delivered. It is the most immersive moddern simulator of this type in my opinion.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I don't really see how a dynamic campaign will work if the result is fixed? I'll feel like I have nothing to play for really because I know that my side will win (or lose).

oleg has already stated (after many questions on this exact point over many years) that with his (current) version of a "dynamic campaign engine" unfolding a scenario over the BoB period, it will NOT be possible to alter the eventual outcome of that small war (ie germans dont succeed in gaining air supremacy, dont squash the brittish airforce, and cant launch a sea born invasion fleet)

to some extent that makes sense, since he cant model "a butterfly in amazonia flapping its wings causing a hurricane in alabama", the small individual effect we have on events in one BoB flight shouldnt be able to alter the war itself, no matter what we do

[janpitor]

I think at least the option to get into the plane already in flight would be good for people who dont have much time or only want to have a small break between other work. I liked the system of offline campaign in Falcon4 exactly because I could fly from cold cockpit, from runway or from the air and I could pick the mission I wanted. Maybe this can be limited for SOW only for the current squadron, so that it could be more historically correct. For example you are assigned a mission. Then you press accelerate time and watch the action in map view. Then you stop the accel. or hit fly when you think the flight is near the action. By this, you save the computing power needed, so you can have maybe 100 time acceleration or more. So in 10 to 15 seconds you can be directly in action.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

I think I have an idea how to campaign in SoW.
The idea of an interface as the falcon4 and good, but you must think that this is a simulator of the 2WW, and that did not exist at the time of electronic monitors, to monitor the tactical situation of war.
You must think as if you are in your airport and your commander gives you 'orders.
In 'Airport, there were radios for communication maps to plan the route and there were the first types of radars.
The British did not monitor for monitoring the whole situation ENGLISH. but they had a map, and women with the wooden poles, according to radio communications coming from trains, troops or flocks, or been aware of the position the target on the map. NOT EXIST TV monitor or digital displays. FALCON4 war and modern electronic monitor.

your poor english has made you completely misunderstand why the example of "falcon-4 type mission tasking" was being suggested in the earlier post, it has NOTHING to do with "modern technology" being used.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I don't really see how a dynamic campaign will work if the result is fixed? I'll feel like I have nothing to play for really because I know that my side will win (or lose).

For the Battle of Britain it wouldn't be too hard. All you would have to do is at the appropriate dates start transfering German units to the East.

From my understanding of events (and I am not an expert and there are gaps in my time line and understanding of the details) Once it was clear that the RAF had not been wiped out, Hitler decided to go on with the "Big Show" which was the invasion of Russia. England could not (at the time) put a substantial force into Western Europe so there was better places to invade.

Cheers!

[Xilon_x]

Loock this video English not use eletronic monitor or Video not exist TV in ww2.
Only falcon4 use monitor for map eletronic and tatical situation.
English use RADIO COMUNICATION and TELOPHONE and MAP whit woman intelligence.
The idea of interface style falcon4 in SoW is negative because WW2 from MODERN ELETRONIC WAR is different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43zVRey2XEs&NR=1

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

For the Battle of Britain it wouldn't be too hard. All you would have to do is at the appropriate dates start transfering German units to the East.

From my understanding of events (and I am not an expert and there are gaps in my time line and understanding of the details) Once it was clear that the RAF had not been wiped out, Hitler decided to go on with the "Big Show" which was the invasion of Russia. England could not (at the time) put a substantial force into Western Europe so there was better places to invade.

Cheers!

I'd like to have the option to have both a historical result and also a result based on the way the campaign plays out. In this sense, you wouldn't have to do loads flying as an RAF pilot, but you'd still be under a lot of pressure in order to ensure you don't lose (although historically I hold the belief that an invasion would have been impossible, regardless of whether the RAF was defeated or not).

[csThor]

Quite frankly:

No single pilot could exert as much influence on the flow of battle to change the outcome. Especially not when the most influential factors that affected the outcome have nothing to do with pilot performance.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I'd like to have the option to have both a historical result and also a result based on the way the campaign plays out. In this sense, you wouldn't have to do loads flying as an RAF pilot, but you'd still be under a lot of pressure in order to ensure you don't lose (although historically I hold the belief that an invasion would have been impossible, regardless of whether the RAF was defeated or not).

After gaining air superiority it would have been possible, but I would have isolated them from any support for a year or so to wear them down and drain the public moral. Churchill could have made as many speeches during that time as he liked, but as you can't live on words a lone, he would have been overthrown eventually and the new government would have come to terms with Germany, just like the French did.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by csThor

Quite frankly:

No single pilot could exert as much influence on the flow of battle to change the outcome. Especially not when the most influential factors that affected the outcome have nothing to do with pilot performance.

maybe not, but having gamers sit behind a pc monitor and recreating the battle in 2010 is very different from beaming somebody back in time and having some new pilot step into another pilot's place during 1940

there are several ways you could radically affect the outcome of the BoB with the 20/20 hindsight we have now i'd even say that with 100 dedicated flightsimmers working together (which already happens on some large il2 campaign servers we have now), you could tip the balance in germany's favour by for ex:
- knowing where churchill is in the south of england at a given time and day, and carpet bombing that are. his death will affect British moral significantly
- wiping out all British radar installations as a sustained push, blinding British fighter command (which the germans never did and they kept underestimating the importance of British radar up until the end)
- keeping the bomber attacks focused on southern airfields and radar installations, and not switching to civilian targets like london.

that should be enough to tip the balance

so yes, one flightsimmer couldnt make a difference, but 100 organised ones could (combined with being able to task bombers/fighters for their side in the game campaign settings)