Friday 2010-03-05 Screenshots/Video and Discussion Thread

[virre89]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

No it shouldn't.

a) because of the legal problems in several countries
b) because you can make your own skins with swatiskas, if you want them.
c) because there will be a mod enabling swatiskas and then Oleg won't be the one to blaim.

Not being allowed to have swastikas in the game is as ridiculous as the gore censorship that exists in germany and australia. Politicians need to grow up.

[csThor]

I actually asked Oleg on his stance to something similar but not SoW related and he said that there was a new law in Russia which apparently makes it problematic to use the swastika in computer games. This is my reading of his reply, but that's beside the issue.

German law is quite clear: No swastika at all, except in art, education or documentation. Computer games are just that - games (or toys, as several courts have said). Even having it optional is prohibited here so I guess unless Oleg does a specific german release version (for which there is no indication so far - the same policy as with Il-2 seems to be in place) he won't ship the game with swastikas as default (or even option). So IMO the best option is to make provisions for historical markings but not ship the graphical files with the game. Leave open the marking gfx to the user and he can easily insert the relevant files when he feels like it. Same for the Finns and et voila ... everyone's happy.

EDIT: I think the german law is spot on given our unique history. I do not want to see the right-wing idiots marching through our streets with the Reichskriegsflagge so a few hoops to jump through for accurate markings is a price I'm prepared to pay.

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Hey, judging from what I've seen in the updates and in Il-2, it's art, education and documentation on my book

But just a question, the German law covers even pre-Nazi swastikas?

[Ernst]

Stalin murdered millions people in Siberia prisons and no one complains about the Red Star. There is the right-wing idiots and the left-wing idiots. Difference is that the last win the war.

If you wanna use pink spitfire i have no objection, we must respect sexual orientation diversity...

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Ernst, actually, in Hungary the Red Star (actually, all "totalitarian symbols", if I remember correctly) is forbidden as well

[Foo'bar]

Here we go again... Hakenkreuze - the most useless discussion ever. Don't waste your energy on that.

[koivis]

I think the banning of the Finnish Air Force swastika in Germany is very stupid, since Finland had just as little in common with the German Nazi party between 1917 and 1941 as did any other European country.

However, the German law says:

(1) Whoever:

1. domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or

2. produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1,

shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine.

(2) Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto.

I think the last sentence is what makes ANY swastika illegal there. End of discussion, please.

[Insuber]

Looking at the movie, as someone said above the Panhard antennas have inertia ... they move realistically according to elastic and inertial laws.

Inertia is clearly modeled also in Il2, but the elasticity could be a novelty in the simulations field, afaik. Not overly difficult imho, but still you must have the idea ...

Regards,
Insuber

[Antoninus]

In some instances even antifascists were charged for using the swastika in symbols like this:



Fortunately the highest German court finally made an end to such a ridicous abuse of the law but I would try to avoid any lawsuit just to include a feature that adds almost nothing to the sim, even if there would be a chance for SOW to be considered as "art, education and documentation".

[PilotError]

I know that the swastika is illegal in several countries (didn't know that Russia had brought out a new law though), but I would like to see them in the SoW series if at all possible.
After all, it was Nazi Germany that Britain was at war with.

It seems strange that Oleg and his team are going to so much trouble to get the smallest of details correct, like RAF cap badges for example, and yet a huge emblem that was on all German planes is ommited.

There is probably a legal can of worms here, but would it not be possible to have no swastika as the default, but an option say at installation or in game to enable swastikas. If you tried to enable the swastika a legal disclaimer would appear stating that it is illegal to use this option in Germany, Austria, etc, which you would have to acknowledge to proceed ( a bit like the EULA contract when installing most games ).
Would this not move the possibilty of braking the law from the game maker or publisher onto the individual who has the game?

We would probably need a lawer to answer that one, but just an idea.

Having said that, I would rather have SoW without swastikas than no Sow at all.

Thanks for the update. I'm really looking forward to Fridays now.