Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Winny,

It is a fact Dowding rotated and rested his squadrons. All Groups did not bear the same operational burden.

But they were still on ops, hence why withdrawn and rotated are two different things. 12 and 13 groups still flew ops, no one is arguing that they weren't rotated in and out of 11 group.

[Crumpp]

Rested in a quieter sector ie not 11 group and withdrawn totally from ops are not the same thing.....

It does not matter.

All Groups did not bear the same burden and if only part of your force is using the fuel, I would give it to the guys with largest operational burden.

It is all speculation.

[winny]

Oh and you even missed this - you highlighted the wrong bit..

Although squadrons were being rotated around the country, with battered units being withdrawn to the North to rest and the fresher squadrons moving from north to south, the pilots were becoming increasingly worn out.

Not very well rested then were they?

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

It does not matter.

All Groups did not bear the same burden and if only part of your force is using the fuel, I would give it to the guys with largest operational burden.

I agree with you, and have been saying that from day one in this rather long thread, that it makes sense that 11 group had it over the other groups, as a priority.

But at the start of this thread even that notion was disputed, and clearly even you have to admit, 100 octane fuel was used, and the were spits running around with the potential to go to 12lbs boost, and they were almost certainly in 11 group during the BoB, yes/no?

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

It does not matter.

All Groups did not bear the same burden and if only part of your force is using the fuel, I would give it to the guys with largest operational burden.

No, I thought you said before that it was All operational aircraft?

So now it's just the operational squadrons that have the 'largest burden' ?

really?

[Crumpp]

Winny,

The Operating Notes say that in the January 1941 edition. None of the earlier editions make any note of it at all under operating limitations. 100 Octane is a minor footnote of "may be used.....IF converted" in all previous editions of the Operating Notes.

It is a fact the RAF did not complete conversion to 100 Octane until around January 1941. That is evident in the Operating Notes.

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Winny,

It is a fact Dowding rotated and rested his squadrons. All Groups did not bear the same operational burden.

I am not disputing the fact that squadrons were rotated - I'm saying that only one squadron was withdrawn - ie. made non operational.

Where have I said that they were not rotated?
I'm saying that they were not withdrawn.

So again - find me all these withdrawn (non operational) fighter squadrons.. the ones that you say were using 87 octane

[Crumpp]

But at the start of this thread even that notion was disputed, and

Read my first post in this thread. Your perception is totally wrong if you include me, fruitbat.

I said I don't know and niether does anyone else. We still don't know an exact date.

It is a fact that conversion of all operational Spitfire Mk I's was important enough to warrent a warning in paragraph 1, operating limitations of the Pilots Operating Notes in January, 1941.

We can definately say that full conversion did not take place in June 1940 or earlier as no such warning exist's in the Operating Notes.

Based on the ever increase amount of 100 Octane at the airfields evidenced in Table II, it is highly unlikely it was the major fuel until around October, 1940.

were spits running around with the potential to go to 12lbs boost, and they were almost certainly in 11 group during the BoB, yes/no?

Yes but not all of them and certainly not the entire Fighter Command.

The frequency would depend on the timeframe and the dates one picks for the battle. It looks to me like the fuel came into use in July and gradually became more common until total conversion around January.

If you say the Battle of Britian lasted from July to 15 September, 100 Octane is pretty limited.

If you say the battle went from July to December then 100 Octane was probably the standard at the end of it.

[fruitbat]

I have no idea where your first post in this thread is, and i wasn't talking about you specifically.

Since there were some operational history reports posted here somewhere showing Hurricanes that had been adapted to 100 octane fuel running around in the Battle of France, which ended in may, i conclude quite confidently that 100 octane MUST of been introduce before July, when i don't know myself.

I am not disputing your pilots notes and total conversion of every spit no matter where it was stationed in jan'41 though.

From the ops records i've seen here and elsewhere, it is clear from the dates which are always on these documents that many frontline if not all 11 group squadrons were converted in the main before July, so i do disagree with your opinion

If you say the Battle of Britain lasted from July to 15 September, 100 Octane is pretty limited.

as far as 11 group is concerned.

[Crumpp]

Winny,

It is a fact Dowding rotated and rested his squadrons.

It is not speculation or assumption, the squadrons were rotated and rested. It was very contraversial and that argument is covered in some detail in the official RAF History. I personally believe it was an essential part of the RAF victory.

Keep in mind that tactically, the RAF SE fighters took a pasting from the Luftwaffe SE fighters with the exception of July 1940. Very good pre-war planning, good leadership, most significantly brave men and women all allowed the RAF to increase its strength during the battle to ultimately prevail.

For the Luftwaffe, it is an example of tactical success ending in a defeat in the campaign.