The Crystal Ball

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by furbs

Well i see it differently...in fact there is such a huge difference between CLOD and its developers and ROF and jason.

Maybe you are right and CloD team is not as good as RoF team. This does not change Jason's point that constant negativity of some part of community is harmful to a project.

Originally Posted by furbs

Because they have always been up front and honest about the games problems and have ALWAYS posted info, updates and blogs telling us what they are working on, a rough idea when the next patch will be out and if they are slipping they tell you why..they have always had a road map and a long term plan.

If they say they going to do something...THEY DO IT.

But most of all they FIX things and they stay fixed.

Each patch that is released has made progress and improved the sim.

ROF works.

Even this perfect team which you describe could hardly handle the damage caused by the malcontents over recent 2+ years according to Jason. All this did not help them.

If you think the CloD team is not this good why would you want to make even more damage to it?

The team needs us to remind them about key issues which they can forget (like COOP one) because they may be overwhelmed with the challenges they are facing from time to time. But I am sure that this should be done in a rational business-like manner to be heard and to be of any use. Negative emotions cause only negative reaction as we can see even in Jason's posts.

Let's agree with you that CloD devs are not as good as RoF devs that you try to prove in your post. OK. Does it make you happy? Would it inspire anyone here to make fixes quicker, to work extra hours, to skip vacations to get results quicker?

PS. 777 are open for discussion because they are the publisher and Jason is the Biggest Boss of the publisher. For MG publishers are 1C in Russia and UBI in other countries. Luthier is not the Big Boss of the publisher and has non-disclosure agreements with both of them. No one would benefit if he breaks one and gets fired.

He may also think that it is UBI responsibility to answer your questions because UBI's PR people are paid for this. It case of 777 Jason is paid for this and community liaison is a part of his job-description unlike Luthier's one. You may not like it and seek revenge on these forums but this is how business is done. Marketing and communication budgets are spent by publishers not by developers. If you are angry talk to UBI because they are your publisher, you paid them and they got your money. If you want to support the developer you can do it on this forum (as it belongs to developer, not to UBI).

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

Jason would ban you in about 2 seconds. He doesn't put up with any of the BS that is posted in here.

True. I remember a newcomer posted emotional complain on performance or SLI. Jason replied mentioning also something like that a complain without posting system specs can be considered as trolling.

There needs to be people who are prepared to diagnose accurately and without malice about any given situation. That is why Furbs and many others post as they do. It doesn't mean you have to be pompous or high and mighty, just cut through the crescendo about how good things are.

The one that makes me question reality is this old trope: you will endanger future endeavors if you don't be quiet. Which is similar to being told that all mathematics is in trouble if we can't agree to 2 + 2 = 5.

Attempts to stop this by complaining about the tone of the criticism (lack of respect etc) or characterising it all as a single whinge generally only rebound on those that do it. The game itself, and the state of it, will have a habit of throwing up new critics, despite how often the critics are routinely removed, baited, whatever.

It's a fairly simple and fundamental point.

The defenders-of-the-faith do more harm in helping 'their own' game, than good, in reality. I'm beginning to think they do more harm than the more extreme critics. It is one of the ironies of the situation, and must be mildly frustrating to those who take the uber-fans' viewpoint seriously (I do not take them seriously) . It is like arguing Copernican values. You can do it, and you can ban contrary views from various forums...but what a waste of energy, and how silly, ultimately.

Much of the criticism is based on really obvious, simple points. A whole lot more is getting people to see these points, which they can;t do if they're busy trying to gun all criticism down.

Ben

[furbs]

Il take all that on board Ataros and have a think.

Just my opinion...

If before release Luthier had said "look CLOD isnt ready and its going to take at least a year to get it to a standard we all want...at the moment it has many problems please help us beta test it and improve it...
here is rough year road map of what we are going to do..."

Then had they stuck to it and made progress you would have 99% less moaning as you see it.

Where is the progress Ataros? i dont care it it takes a long time but i want to see clear progress and the core features fixed.

Does anyone really believe a flight sim development team with 12 years experience in ww2 air combat needs the community to help fix the AI?
Its just padding, smoke and mirrors

Come on, if the guy whos paid to make the AI doesnt know...then they have the wrong guy.


Progress and fixes is what will fix the sim and this community...nothing else.

[JG52Uther]

New people coming here and asking about something is fine. People who have been here a while, and have a lot of threads making posts complaining about the same stuff over and over again is not ok.
This forum has always been quite relaxed and laid back, and some people have taken advantage of that and just come here either to argue, or complain about the same things over and over.
There are 40,000 plus members on these forums, and ten or so people who seem to come here just for a rant and lols are not going to ruin it for everyone else.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Ataros

Maybe you are right and CloD team is not as good as RoF team. This does not change Jason's point that constant negativity of some part of community is harmful to a project.

I always knew 777 was not making a killing.. But I did not know they were so close to shutting down the operation..

Thanks for the heads up!

Based on that info I just went and spent $25+ on..

Halberstadt CL.II
R.E.8
SPAD 7.C1 150 HP

Now I have all the planes!!

Even though I have no interest in flying the SPAD..

Same is true of a lot of the RoF planes and Field Mods I have bought in the past.. I see it as supporting the people who make the the HOBBY I love possible

And when you stop and think.. I can spend more than that on a lunch.. Three times that in a few hours at the bar.. Four times that filling up my truck once.. Which puts it all into perspective.. It really is the cheapest form of entertainment around! That is to say if RoF closes it's doors next week, it will still be best entertainment money I have spent this week

Now.. I am off to try out my new RE8! S!

[furbs]

Think i might fill up with a few planes too. price of a lunch.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by furbs

Think i might fill up with a few planes too. price of a lunch.

That's the spirit!

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Ben Scammell

There needs to be people who are prepared to diagnose accurately and without malice about any given situation. That is why Furbs and many others post as they do. It doesn't mean you have to be pompous or high and mighty, just cut through the crescendo about how good things are.

The one that makes me question reality is this old trope: you will endanger future endeavors if you don't be quiet. Which is similar to being told that all mathematics is in trouble if we can't agree to 2 + 2 = 5.

Attempts to stop this by complaining about the tone of the criticism (lack of respect etc) or characterising it all as a single whinge generally only rebound on those that do it. The game itself, and the state of it, will have a habit of throwing up new critics, despite how often the critics are routinely removed, baited, whatever.

It's a fairly simple and fundamental point.

The defenders-of-the-faith do more harm in helping 'their own' game, than good, in reality. I'm beginning to think they do more harm than the more extreme critics. It is one of the ironies of the situation, and must be mildly frustrating to those who take the uber-fans' viewpoint seriously (I do not take them seriously) . It is like arguing Copernican values. You can do it, and you can ban contrary views from various forums...but what a waste of energy, and how silly, ultimately.

Much of the criticism is based on really obvious, simple points. A whole lot more is getting people to see these points, which they can;t do if they're busy trying to gun all criticism down.

Ben

So if you had a child that was underperforming in life you would go about correcting it by beasting on them with constant criticism? positive encouragement doesn't factor?

yet when I use your own method to correct your failing in life you expect me to be quiet.

[csThor]

@furbs

You mentioned that "openness" of the ROF team vs Maddox Games. Let me make a small correction to that: they became that way after 777 Studios and Jason especially took over the management and community liaison. Before neoqb were just as close-mouthed, evasive and hung up on trashy salesman phrases as UBI in their worst times. I remember trying to get a straight answer out of Viks about their intial DRM and all I got were standard phrases which were more evasive than telling.
It's Jason and only him and his people who have salvaged what I considered a grossly mishandeled release and news policy not worth the title and turned it into a working game and a working relationship with the community.