A request for more features to make IL-2 a better game, not just better software.

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

What would go a long way is a concise user guide for the FMB, not just a post at SimHQ on how to modify one of the stock single player missions for offline use.

Honestly, I went into the FMB last night and all I could accomplish was to get an AI Spitfire to endlessly circle over base. No way to spawn on the ground in said Spitfire, no indication that the base was red or blue, and no way to launch the mission, even though it shows up in my single player mission list.

It's infuriating for someone who has made missions for years in IL2.

It may seem more difficult to original IL-2 FMB users because it may be different in 5 - 10 ways. But different does not mean worse or more complicated. On the contrary I think it is more streamlined and consistent for new users. E.g. now you can place an MP Spawn Area in the same way as you place a tank or a building and edit its properties in the same way. Thus consistency among different objects was introduced. As far as I understand it was different in the original IL-2.

It makes life easier for new users like me. I opened original FMB 10 and 6 years ago but it looked too messed up for me then. The new one was self explanatory 95% except for rotation hot-keys, spawn-points placement, AAA placement on ships and triggers/action menu which I had to ask about in the FMB section. It may seem more difficult to original FMB users than new ones because change is difficult.

Regarding issues you mentioned:
- to spawn in a Spitfire as a player (not AI) just tick a "player" checkbox in its properties
- to spawn any plane in a Spawn Area (which is an MP spawn only) launch mission in MP (Lobby or Server room)
- to start on the ground set starting alt to zero in SpawnArea(MP) or Airgroup waypoint (SP) properties. Make sure ground start is not disabled in main game difficulty settings (!)
- to make an airfield or spawn area (whatever you call base) red or blue, select "red" or "blue" in its properties
- to get a Spitfire to fly to a destination place a new waypoint in that destination, edit its properties
- to launch a mission click "Load" and then press "Start Battle"

Sounds 100% logical and self-explanatory, doesn't it?

Again the same functionality of original FMB is available in the new one without scripting.
I am afraid many myths about complexity of new FMB are created by old FMB users who do not what to change 5 - 10 habits in spite of the fact that new FMB is more consistent and streamlined. As far as I can see no one who actually uses it (like ATAG guys) thinks it is more difficult than original one.

The best way to learn those little differences with original FMB is to open 5 existing SP, campaign and MP missions then right-click and carefully look through properties of all placed objects. Takes 40 - 60 minutes.

There are still many bugs in FMB that make creation and testing of missions very time consuming. They have to be fixed but it is a different subject.

Anyway I think the main issue for mission building is a general state of the game itself as it does not give enough motivation to make missions. It will change after 1) official patch or two, 2) BoM, 3) more people fly new Il-2 compared to original.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by addman

I think it's great that CloD has really advanced features such as scripting and stuff. There are some very talented people out there that can do magic with the tools at their disposal BUT there also have to be a more accessible side to it. Nobody is denying that CloD is a step forward in terms of FMB features compared to 1946 but it's a step backwards (which I never expected) when it comes to being intuitive and accessible. This goes for the whole game IMO, they really need someone with previous experience in making user friendly GUI's, I hope they hire at least one of those. It's a turn-off for newcomers to the game but it's almost even a turn off for a long time fan like myself. I hope to see improvements in the future, hope.

I think the problem is everyone is scared of it. Just looking through this thread I can tell there's plenty of false things spread about the FMB in the 1st place. To me it's just like 46's FMB, with some features added. If you really know how to do stuff in the old game, then the new one should be fairly straight forward as well - minus if you want to get into scripting.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

I think the problem is everyone is scared of it. Just looking through this thread I can tell there's plenty of false things spread about the FMB in the 1st place. To me it's just like 46's FMB, with some features added. If you really know how to do stuff in the old game, then the new one should be fairly straight forward as well - minus if you want to get into scripting.

I agree it is just like 46 for making a basic mission with the tools to take that to your imagination limits.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Bliss

I think the problem is everyone is scared of it. Just looking through this thread I can tell there's plenty of false things spread about the FMB in the 1st place. To me it's just like 46's FMB, with some features added. If you really know how to do stuff in the old game, then the new one should be fairly straight forward as well - minus if you want to get into scripting.

Sorry Bliss you dont get it at all.

No ones spreading false info here, you are not reading what were saying but picking what you want to see, and are not seeing it from any other view point but your own.

Some of us dont want to fly in DF servers but want to fly in CooP mode 30 - 40 mins missions structured to a specific mission parameter/s.

Old CooP gives mission results pilots results and win/loose condition of the CooP when the mission is closed, none of this is present in CoD, see the pics in this thread.

We know how to make missions we know how to fly the aircraft we don't have the interface to do it how we do in IL2 1946 style CooP mode, as there's no CooP mode in CoD.

Please read the thread from the beginning to understand what's being said here.

Im just saying no ones knocking DF servers and what they do, its just we need a proper CooP interface.

Thanks.

[GraveyardJimmy]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I agree it is just like 46 for making a basic mission

Yes, I only ever use it to make quick fun missions to check thing s(like placing lots of AA guns to look at the flak explosions effects on aircraft) and it works almost exactly the same as '46, just with more options.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Old CooP gives mission results pilots results and win/loose condition of the CooP when the mission is closed, none of this is present in CoD, see the pics in this thread.

Maybe I'm dumb, but in the ATAG server we have eventually a result of the mission: either reds or blues win, if they reach the objectives. Hence the FMB engine is capable to manage a win/loose condition, and with a complete and user friendly GUI we would have much more coop style missions. As far as the pilots results, the pic shown few pages above with the individual pilots' results proves that it's just a matter of better formatting the data already available. Again a GUI issue.
But again, maybe I don't understand the point.

Cheers,
Insuber

[ATAG_Doc]

What am I missing here? COOP is a mode where you build a mission and play the AI? One side is all human the other is the AI and they carry out a mission that happened in the past? Is that right? To me COOP is what ATAG server does. Problem is not everyone cares what you want to accomplish. There are those that want to complete the objective and others that are looking to disrupt my goal so it requires an amount of sneakiness and planning to avoid them. I have had very few DF's in the last several hours on ATAG. Depends on what you are looking for. If you want a fight you can sure get into one. If you want coop it's there to. The situation changes very often from one hour to the next. Depends on what is complete and what is left. Who on the other side is flying and how many. Lots of dynamics that require your team to coordinate and think about what you are doing.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Sorry Bliss you dont get it at all.

No ones spreading false info here, you are not reading what were saying but picking what you want to see, and are not seeing it from any other view point but your own.

Some of us dont want to fly in DF servers but want to fly in CooP mode 30 - 40 mins missions structured to a specific mission parameter/s.

Old CooP gives mission results pilots results and win/loose condition of the CooP when the mission is closed, none of this is present in CoD, see the pics in this thread.

We know how to make missions we know how to fly the aircraft we don't have the interface to do it how we do in IL2 1946 style CooP mode, as there's no CooP mode in CoD.

Please read the thread from the beginning to understand what's being said here.

Im just saying no ones knocking DF servers and what they do, its just we need a proper CooP interface.

Thanks.

I'm reading exactly what you're saying. You point out how difficult it is to use the FMB, and I point out just how easy it is. You say that things are over complicated, I explain the advantages of why some of those things are done this way. Then you rant on saying you made some tutorial and know what you're doing in response to me showing those advantages. I can read quite well m8.

Then you complain that you don't have the same interface as 46. I think Oleg brought this up years ago, stating that there won't be different modes, but one on-going mode you can do w/e you want with. As I've already stated, someone will make a program that will give you all the on screen chat / AAR type stuff you want, like an old IL2 COOP.

But my point is, you can have the same "FLYING EXPERIENCE" by doing exactly what I said with regards to your missions. Sure you won't have the 46 style AAR but you can all fly together towards your common goal at the same time quite easily with what is available atm. Didn't someone release a COOP script anyhow? Has anyone used it?

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by Insuber

Maybe I'm dumb, but in the ATAG server we have eventually a result of the mission: either reds or blues win, if they reach the objectives. Hence the FMB engine is capable to manage a win/loose condition, and with a complete and user friendly GUI we would have much more coop style missions. As far as the pilots results, the pic shown few pages above with the individual pilots' results proves that it's just a matter of better formatting the data already available. Again a GUI issue.
But again, maybe I don't understand the point.

Cheers,
Insuber

Yes, of course it is. It's capable of what ever you want to do with it. The GUI can even be coded as well.

[SlipBall]

Here is the coop link, I'm sure many already know its existence just posting for those who are unaware...would like to hear from any who are using it.
http://code.google.com/p/il2coop/downloads/list