FW190 FM Change

[Erkki]

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php...%28s%29-Forums

MG151/20 ballistics for different shell types. Notice the gun isnt a factory fresh one but already seen some use.

[Mustang]

1) I agree with the new FW 190 FM. , Thanks Great Work.

But..
Y lose my boost, and lose speed . ( I like the new 190 FM I must repeat thats )

2)But... The speed corresponds to the tests of luftwaffe ?-
Is only a question.

3)With the new overheat system ..the radiator setting, is a big problem.


4)***The FW 190 Have build a enclosed engine + radiator oil system enclosed too + Cooling Fan , ( For extra cooling :... I AM a genius )
I open full radiator and I lose 20 Kms/H.
Like luftwaffe test is correct !

5)**** In the La 5 FN I open full the radiator and I lose only 10 -15 Kms/H
I think must be 45 / 50 Kms/H - (La 5 FN manual)

Sorry but.
If that is true my FW maybe can run out from LA s 5.

From La 5 FN Manual

My apologies if I'm wrong ...

?






.

[Z1024]

There are several problems with d9:

1) Both initial and MW50 versions are late 1944 (September and November respectively), so their titles or captions should be adjusted.
1945 Doras were the D11 and D13

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fw190 :

Early D-9s reached service without the MW 50 installation, but in the meantime Junkers produced a kit to increase manifold pressure (Ladedrucksteigerungs-Rüstsatz) that increased engine output by 150 PS to 1,900 PS, and was effective up to 5,000 m (16,400 ft) altitude. It was fitted immediately to D-9s delivered to the units from September, or retrofitted in the field by TAM. By the end of December, all operational Doras, 183 in total, were converted.[50] From November 1944, a simplified methanol water (MW 50) system (Oldenburg) was fitted, which boosted output to 2,100 PS. By the end of 1944, 60 were delivered with the simplified MW 50 system or were at the point of entering service.

2) They do overheat very quickly and badly at 100% with boost at any altitude and speed even with the fully opened radiator,even in a 750-800km/h shallow dive between 5 and 2km which doesn't feel right.
They overheat much faster than Antons, Mustangs, p47s, LAs, and just about any other plane except for late Spits and 109s.

3) D9 45's engine after about 15-20 min of flying quickly overheats and dies in a matter of 10-15 sec. Even if you didn't use MW50 most of the time.

4) MW50 Dora's top speed is indeed lower than in any source I was able to find (about 710km/h) by about 20km/h

I'm all for realism, but if you alter(or should I say cripple?) one plane, please do the same to the competition.

According to many sources even La7s had some difficulties catching same age Antons(let alone Doras) in a shallow dive. But in the game it's a piece of cake. Even in d9 45 it is difficult to get away from La7s and even from i185m71 joke-plane, because they don't overheat as badly as Dora does, so while D9 45 is slightly faster, with all other things equal it will overheat much faster than la7 so you won't be able to maintain or increase separation, and since La7s also happens to be more maneuverable - there is nothing you can do (well maybe bail).

[JtD]

The D-9 with MW50 has been labelled 1945 since ages, and as it is a plane representative for D-9's in 45 there's little reason to change it. The MW50 kit was a rare item at best by late 1944.

If you have a problem with overheating, I suggest you try not to use WEP all the time, or fly the plane at higher altitudes where the lower outside temperatures help it to cool the engine. Diving at full throttle is a bad thing too, it was outright forbidden in the pilot manual. You're over-revving the engine. 3300 was the absolute limit, check how your rpm's are in the dive.

How much data do you have on the D-9 with MW50?

[Z1024]

Originally Posted by JtD

The D-9 with MW50 has been labelled 1945 since ages, and as it is a plane representative for D-9's in 45 there's little reason to change it. The MW50 kit was a rare item at best by late 1944.

Sorry but that's doesn't mean it can't be corrected. Many server owners use these dates/years to compile planesets.

Originally Posted by JtD

If you have a problem with overheating, I suggest you try not to use WEP all the time, or fly the plane at higher altitudes where the lower outside temperatures help it to cool the engine. Diving at full throttle is a bad thing too, it was outright forbidden in the pilot manual. You're over-revving the engine. 3300 was the absolute limit, check how your rpm's are in the dive.

The problem is that not only it overheats quickly, but that it just dies after about 10 min of flying (radiator always fully opened) in a usual busy open pit server mode.
As an experiment I flew a mission mostly @ 80% using full throttle only in climbs, Didn't engage MW50 whatsoever and yet after ~10 min I got an overheat warning (while going full throttle) an in a matter of seconds (maybe 10) the engine started squeaking. If at this stage you don't drop below 70% or something - the engine will die completely within maybe another 30sec.
If you reduce to 50-70% you can still make it to the field if its not too far and you don't get shot down by some uber la7.

No other plane behaves like that. Usually you don't have to act immediately to prevent engine failure. It shouldn't be hard to replicate, I get this every time I use Dora, especially the MW50 version (and survive 10-15 min, which is most of the time). So this makes d9 barely flyable. And that was one of the most popular 1944+ planes.

Originally Posted by JtD

How much data do you have on the D-9 with MW50?

Only what's in Wikipedia, but most websites mentioning Dora list the same specs and data.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by Z1024

Sorry but that's doesn't mean it can't be corrected. Many server owners use these dates/years to compile planesets.

Exactly, and that's why 1945 is the better choice.

I just flew a fuel tank empty with the D-9 1945. No troubles. Keeping radiator open and air speed up, I only once overheated at around 4000m when climbing from sea level to 8000m at 110% power throughout. So I'm still guessing you're over-revving the engine. If you can provide a track, it would help.

Wikipedia figures aren't always the most reliable. For instance, 710 km/h at 11000m is not a figure any D-9 ever attained.

[K_Freddie]

I think there's a lot of pilot error (lack of education) involved here.

a) I fly the anton 9s vs spitIX+25lbs (all '44) with reasonable difficulty and almost at full power = 50/50 outcome
b) Then again with the dora9 vs spitIX+25lbs (all '44) with little or no difficulty mostly at full power = 25/75 in my favour.

All scenarios < 1000m, never had and overheat... I mean not one ??
All Difficulty = Full Real

[Z1024]

Originally Posted by JtD

Exactly, and that's why 1945 is the better choice.

Sorry, I'm not following you here? How is it a better choice to put a 1944 German plane in 1945 if the war ended for them after only 4 months of 1945?

And then this late 1944 is pitted against mid/late 1945 planes?

For instance according to this Russian resource:
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/la7.html

Лишь в июне - июле 1944 года в НИИ ВВС удалось провести первые испытания трех синхронных мушек Б-20. Они выявили, что при выбросе гильз в воздух из зализов крыла случались повреждения консолей крыла и хвостового оперения. Машину доработали, сделав выброс гильз под фюзеляж, и в сентябре вновь испытали в НИИ ВВС. В серийное производство трехпушечный вариант пошел летом 1945 г.

The 3 cannon version of La-7 went into production in summer of 1945, but in the game it is available in 1944!
By the way the the max speed for La-7 according to Il2 Compare is 682km/h - that is the result achieved by the prototype "Эталон" plane (actually 680), and I doubt that average new plane coming off the factory lines would show the same performance. Wikipedia article for La-7 lists a more realistic figure of 661km/h @6000m for the 1945 production model.

So given all that I can't help but notice the performance specs look somewhat biased towards soviet planes...

Originally Posted by JtD

I just flew a fuel tank empty with the D-9 1945. No troubles. Keeping radiator open and air speed up, I only once overheated at around 4000m when climbing from sea level to 8000m at 110% power throughout. So I'm still guessing you're over-revving the engine. If you can provide a track, it would help.

Try Crimea, between 100 to 300m , just fly straight, MW50 + 110% radiator fully open. I get the "overheat" message in ~1:50min.

Originally Posted by JtD

Wikipedia figures aren't always the most reliable. For instance, 710 km/h at 11000m is not a figure any D-9 ever attained.

Well okay, The top speed figure for D9 is varies between 680 and 705 km/h @~6000m depending on the source. So that's close to 710 albeit not at 11k, and I agree that figure did look a bit strange - could be some experimental model with GM-1 boost?

Speaking of speeds and reliable sources, according to Il2 compare the top speed for D9 is pretty close in the game(~692km/h @ 5500m), however sea level figures look a bit low:

This article has some authentically looking reports and figures:
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o...190d9test.html

So if you have a loot at this figure from that article:

You can see that its sea level speed should be around 610km/h and in I2 Compare it is ~610km/h.
By the way, during my tests I could't make it go faster than 575km/h (normally like 560) without making a very shallow dive, but in a La-7 I managed to reach ~600 (605 in IL2 Compare)...
Anyway. back to the graph, between 0 and 1500m IL2Compare figures are 10-20km/h lower than on this graph. Furthermore, between 1500 and 2300m in Il2Copmare the speed drops, while on the report diagram it stays between 645 and 655km/h. At 3000m the difference between the report and il2 compare is 20-25km/h (640 vs ~660-665)
These graphs are given for 3250rpm - and this was allowed for 30 min.
Measured results of these captured planes show for example that D9 should be able to go at least 665km/h @6150m for at least 30min. I'm pretty sure you can't do that in the game without blowing the engine.I'm saying at least, because they were not in the perfect shape, not just off the production line with the brand new engine. And if you are using "Эталон" figures for La-7, Why not use the FockeWulf figures on that graph with the engine gap sealed, no ETC504 rack? I'm not even suggesting using the one with C3 fuel BTW that C3 one - that's with the ETC 504 thingy. Drop it and you probably can expect 710km/h @ 6k...

[Z1024]

Originally Posted by K_Freddie

I think there's a lot of pilot error (lack of education) involved here.

a) I fly the anton 9s vs spitIX+25lbs (all '44) with reasonable difficulty and almost at full power = 50/50 outcome
b) Then again with the dora9 vs spitIX+25lbs (all '44) with little or no difficulty mostly at full power = 25/75 in my favour.

All scenarios < 1000m, never had and overheat... I mean not one ??
All Difficulty = Full Real

Vanilla I2 upped to patch 4.11.* - the latest?
Full power + MW50? Like I said - I create a quick mission, fly straight MW50+max power with open radiator and get an overheat under 2min. Full real as well (well, at least engine wise). What am I possibly doing wrong here?
I'd love to see a track of you managing to maintain 110%+MW50 at sea level for more than say 5min and not get an overheat with some notes on how you achieve that?

[MadBlaster]

Originally Posted by Z1024

Vanilla I2 upped to patch 4.11.* - the latest?
Full power + MW50? Like I said - I create a quick mission, fly straight MW50+max power with open radiator and get an overheat under 2min. Full real as well (well, at least engine wise). What am I possibly doing wrong here?
I'd love to see a track of you managing to maintain 110%+MW50 at sea level for more than say 5min and not get an overheat with some notes on how you achieve that?

To measure the time to overheat, you should really start from take-off when the "virtual" engine of the D-9 is cold with rad open, then see how long it takes. Not when the engine is already warm. Also keep in mind each map is modeled different temperature, effects of cooling from airspeed.

Think about it. 3250 is very high rpms even today for piston engine. This isn't even water cooled! High rpms creates more heat and that will break down the oil/lubricant chemical bonds and then the engine damage. Learn to use force of gravity in combination with your engine, this will get you your speed in any plane. Use the high rpms to get torque at your low speeds for acceleration, then lower the rpms and atas to keep it cool when your moving fast.