Why does luthier even bother?

[Trooper117]

Originally Posted by zwiebacksaege

and i'm not claiming anything I just wish the devs are working as intense on the game as you cry about critic.

Well, No-one knows how hard the devs are working but I'd guess pretty hard.. their livelihoods depend on their success after all..
I'd like to think they are giving it max in the office..

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

The fact is that a patch is usually indicative of progress; improving what is already tangible and playable. In this case, as far as development goes, the team are using this forum as their testing area, and with this in mind, we can't expect progress at any stages. Certainly we can expect to see the game expanded, but whether this expansion is of a high standard is questionable.
Take the landscape colours: Beta 1 was a brilliant step to a fairly accurate representation of England, and Beta 2 is completely reactionary. That is not progress. Is it a patch? The change carries the word patch, but it's not an improvement. And the word patch is usually metaphorical for fixing something.
The lighting has been 'patched', the sounds patched. The cockpits? Well, Beta 1 degraded perfect work, and Beta 2 has pretty much ruined it.

But wait! The word Beta solves everything No, it doesn't. Issues are expected with development, a patch won't always improve the game, a Beta patch even more so, and both may throw up unexpeted problems; but at no stage is it expected that a patch will undo brilliant work. Beta or no beta, the title for that kind of 'destruction' is irrelevent. And my post can be deconstructed as many times by Aces-of-Aces, his work will be irrelevent to the fundamentals of what a Beta is. If we are viewing the Beta as a testing area for changes, then yes, it could be applied here, but is that the case? Has Luthier stated that they are trying out some new colours, and asked us what we think? Has he asked people who actually live in Blighty to post their constructive opinions, or asked the experts among us like fruitbat? No, he hasn't. In this case, this is a change made. For someone who views the change as improvement, it may be viewed as a patch, but as someone who has flown over England many times, as far as terrain colours go this is a major step backwards. Not a patch. And don't even get me started about the cockpits. Is removing the beautiful reflections in the gauges patching the game? God no! Even at beta stage, one would expect a 'patch' to add to the game. Not take away!

Enough from me, just my 2P. We are testing Beta software, and there-in lies why some will post their truthful opinion: to see the game actually improved.

Add one more to the list

[zwiebacksaege]

again i'm not claiming anything as you always want to believe. I just want to give the hint not to be too sure that most of the people who bought this game are satisfied the way it develops. You seem to know that most of them do because of 2 or 3 posts.

so now that you explained the word beta so fine to me... you may also tell me why it wasn't in big letters on my collectors edition?

[Trooper117]

Bingo!

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Add one more to the list

Which list is this? I posted my honest opinion to expect mature debate. That comment is childish, and lacks little substance. If you posseseed any analytical skills, it would be clear that I had agreed with your view on the title of Beta, but had refuted the idea that a Beta patch always shows mprovement which negates criticism.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by zwiebacksaege

again i'm not claiming anything as you always want to believe.

Implying or claiming.. take your pick

Originally Posted by zwiebacksaege

I just want to give the hint not to be too sure that most of the people who bought this game are satisfied the way it develops.

Based on your record thus far.. I can understand why you would want to retreat from your earlier claims to this above

Originally Posted by zwiebacksaege

You seem to know that most of them do because of 2 or 3 posts.

Nope

Not based on two post, based on my experience that most (read adults) understand what 'beta' means

Originally Posted by zwiebacksaege

so now that you explained the word beta so fine to me... you may also tell me why it wasn't in big letters on my collectors edition?

Looks like you need it explained to you further.. because based on what you just said you still don't get it

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Which list is this? I posted my honest opinion to expect mature debate. That comment is childish, and lacks little substance. If you posseseed any analytical skills, it would be clear that I had agreed with your view on the title of Beta, but had refuted the idea that a Beta patch always shows mprovement which negates criticism.

Philip..

You seem to have me confused with someone that cares about what you have to say..

Know that I don't!

And I haven't for some time now!

I know your still upset with me for how you got set straight wrt trying to lock my posts back in the AAA forums.. But let it go bud! And if you have anything you want to talk about, feel free to PM me instead of posting tangent topics in this thread. S!

[philip.ed]

Mate, I have no personal issues with you at all.
that is completely childish. I don't even post in the modding forums any-more because I haven't played Il-2 1946 for ages.
I'm quite bemused by that, as I always thought you were a fairly mature individual. Tangent topics? I have stayed on topic, and have no wish to appear hypocritical, unlike yourself.
Irrelevent personal issues aside, it is quite clear why you don't wish to challenge my argument; because it quite clearly embodies the idea of a 'Beta' 'patch' in a rather more fluid, eloquent way than what has been posted previously. But it is a debate, and I'm happy for someone to disagree. At the end of the day, it is just my opinion.

So no hard feelings on my part, but I'm sorry that I have upset you.

EDIT-to save further posting, the PM part which I misunderstood was that I have no wish to regurgiate past activities and have personal discussions. I only posted here to have my opinion voiced; I didn't expect personal challenge. Moderator, feel free to delete these irrelevent posts if you wish. Thank you.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

So what part of PM me did you not understand?

[zwiebacksaege]

i'm very sorry about having disturbed this wonderful thread. i will keep my dumb feedback to holy beta patches for me in future. very sorry again just to talk about this.