Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[Al Schlageter]

If by June 1940, 30 squadrons were operating 100 Octane, then almost the entire force would need the +12lbs boost instructions instead of the 87 Octane. The Operating Notes would have reflected this and the 100 Octane limits would have been included.

So your Pilot notes are incomplete. That is, they are missing the Amendments.

Instructions issued 20-3-40.



We have yet to see the identity of these 16 fighter squadrons from you Eugene.

[41Sqn_Banks]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I have the June 1940 version. All previous instructions are included in the later version AND any technical orders are incorporated. That is a fact.

If the later version of the Operating Instructions does not include it, you can bet the earlier did not.

That looks like somebodies photo-shop work.

Here is the page from "Operational Notes for Pilots on Merlin II and III, 2nd Edition January 1939".
As I'm holding it in my hands right now I can assure you that it is not photo-shopped.

Actually I was wrong, the use of higher boost than +6 1/4 was according to this manual not only allowed for take-off but also for emergency.

[41Sqn_Banks]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Pilots Operating Limitations, June 1940:

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3...kijune1940.jpg

All out 5 minute Emergency rating as listed in June 1940:

http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9...cyratingju.jpg

If by June 1940, 30 squadrons were operating 100 Octane, then almost the entire force would need the +12lbs boost instructions instead of the 87 Octane. The Operating Notes would have reflected this and the 100 Octane limits would have been included.

That is a fact and how it works.

Please read the other pages from the manual, e.g.
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...1&d=1332111649
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachm...3&d=1332111666

[41Sqn_Banks]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

So your Pilot notes are incomplete. That is, they are missing the Amendments.

Not necessarily. Air Publications have a "disclaimer" at the first page. Orders or leaflets are the overriding authority in case they are contradicting to the initial publication or a amendment list. So even if it wouldn't be mentioned in the Pilot's Notes of June 1940 (which it is, see post above), the leaflet from March that authorized the use would have priority.

[Osprey]

12lbs boost, get voting

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/174

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

I

I have the June 1940 version. All previous instructions are included in the later version AND any technical orders are incorporated. That is a fact.

If the later version of the Operating Instructions does not include it, you can bet the earlier did not.

That looks like somebodies photo-shop work.

Can I ask again for a link to the notes you are looking at or the parts where they refer to the propeller in use or the section on protection for the pilot.

The notes you quote do not seem to tie up to what is know about the updated version of the Spitfire in use during the BOB.

I am happy to be wrong but would like to look into it in more detail

[Al Schlageter]

Do try to clue in Eugene.

1. testing of 100 octane fuel was completed in 1939.

2. conversion to 12 lb boost was started in early 1940.

3. before the BoB started, ~30 squadrons of Spitfires and Hurricanes are known to have been converted to 12 lb boost. These squadrons would be those that would most likely come in contact with the Luftwaffe.

4. by the end of the BoB, Fighter Command had converted to 12lb boost.

5. there was never a shortage of 100 octane fuel.

6. stock of 100 octane fuel had doubled by the time the BoB ended.

7. the 800,000 tons of 100 octane reserve was not reached till late 1941.

8. 87 octane fuel was the predominant fuel used by the RAF as other Commands and units used 87 octane fuel.

9. 100 octane was the predominant fuel used by Fighter Command.

10. the 16 + 2 was a pre-war plan that was scraped due to the national emergency.

[Crumpp]

Please read the other pages from the manual, e.g.

I have read those Banks. You misunderstand what I wrote. A.P. 1590B/J.2-W is incorporated into the June 1940 Pilots Operating Notes.

If the aircraft in service were most commonly using 100 Octane, those limits would be the ones listed under the limiting Operating Conditions of the Pilots Operating Notes.

That is how it works.

The 87 Octane limiting operating conditions are published as the predominate operating limits of the aircraft in June 1940. References to 100 Octane are minor footnotes denoting specialized circumstances that are not the common configuration.

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

Not necessarily. Air Publications have a "disclaimer" at the first page. Orders or leaflets are the overriding authority in case they are contradicting to the initial publication or a amendment list. So even if it wouldn't be mentioned in the Pilot's Notes of June 1940 (which it is, see post above), the leaflet from March that authorized the use would have priority.

Yes that too. He still does not have an complete Pilot Notes.

[Crumpp]

Can I ask again for a link to the notes you are looking at

I don't have a link Glider. These are not posted on some website but part of my collection. I scan the pages and post them.

The notes you quote do not seem to tie up to what is know about the updated version of the Spitfire in use during the BOB.

Exactly. Quite a large "Fly in the Ointment" for silly claims like:

before the BoB started, ~30 squadrons of Spitfires and Hurricanes are known to have been converted to 12 lb boost. These squadrons would be those that would most likely come in contact with the Luftwaffe.

100 octane was the predominant fuel used by Fighter Command.

And depending on the dates you pick for the battle to be over:

by the end of the BoB, Fighter Command had converted to 12lb boost.

You wonder why I question what you claim "is known." Facts are it is not known.