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#92
01-28-2012, 04:54 PM
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#93
01-28-2012, 09:01 PM
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whistlinggdeath> i know nothing about the TA152, so i cant comment on it, but i have occaisionally flown the p51 on spits verses 109's
in the past i found that as long as i kept the engine revs in the green band...aka prop pitch at 60 percent, i could fly fast without overheating even at high manifold pressures. since 4.11 this machine seems to have become very hot at low altitudes. when i tried the mustang III it really surprised me, i mean after all its the same engine as a spit IX (i think)... when we have flown against each other in the past it has generally been between 'down on the deck' and 15000 feet. this is where the mustang and p51 overheat most. at 20000 feet and above it seems to stay cool a lot better. i think this is because of the air temperature being lower up there...(dry adiabatic lapse rate)... i would go as far as to say that the performance of a p51 is directly linked to the outside air temperature. (the p51D has a carb-air-temp sensor). at ground level the OAT might be 20 degrees C. the P51 overheats at 120 giving a 100 degree difference. at 20000 feet the OAT would be about MINUS 20 degrees C. this gives a 140 degree C difference. if anyone here has done any overclocking they will know that hot air isnt very good for cooling! at 20000 feet there is a lot less airflow, but the air is colder. basicly is there too much temperature influence and not enough flow influence? i dont know, ive never flown a p51... on a slightly different note; when i was trying to figure out how to fly this P51 monster, i tried a lot of different combinations of manifold pressure and revs. i found that between about 13000 and 17000 the supercharger would keep switching between high and low mode. i think its because as the revs drop the MP drops causeing the supercharger to shift up a gear. this causes the revs and MP to increase causeing the supercharger to shift down again. my question is; given that the p51 seems to have an auto and manual high and low speed, can this be implemented? it is starting to make a lot of difference now with the new thermal model. this may be a sore point to some, but could it be that the p51 is just outclassed by a lot of planes? dont get me wrong it was an incredible design, but compared to a 25lb spit or a la7, is it best used as a target bouy... after all the bf109 like the spit were best used as homeland defence aircraft. incredible performance but short range. the p51 could goto berlin and back....i dont know. all im saying is maybe the servers we fly on are geared towards the superplanes that people seem to want to fly. if this is the case i hope it stays the same way. a lot of people like to fly the spits and although in a 1v1 i cant hope to beat a 25lb spit, im greatful that i am given a tempest to fly on that server  i really like this new patch. its made IL2 yet more realistic. having to watch the gauges and diagnose the engine problems really brings planes like the tempest to life. it would be nice to see more people migrate towards challenging aircraft that need constant adjustment to get the best out of. spits and la's seem a bit too 'plug and play for my likeing'. as for the tempest being a helicopter.. well in previous versions of the game and mods maybe, but the stock tempest is a 5000 kilo lump of metal fitted with a cutting edge, state of the art, avgas furnace kicking out 1.6 megawatt.---"wake up and smell the oil fumes!!" |
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#94
01-28-2012, 10:05 PM
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So with 4.11 temperature becomes critical. Yet in the game only the radiator can be adjusted, not oil. Are the two linked? I
Is there a plan for having a seperate oil cooler rad in another patch down the track? |
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#95
01-28-2012, 10:07 PM
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The P-51 most certainly isn't outclassed by anything prop driven. I'm pretty sure that I've been scoring 3+ kills per sortie average, frequently 5 or more with it over the last year or even longer, and very rarely been shot down. It's a great plane.
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#96
01-28-2012, 10:32 PM
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i am happy that you disagree with me! it may be a personal question but what tactics do you use, how do you fly it? i would be nice to hear from someone that flies it regularly! Pips> in cliffs of dover i seem to remember the bf110 having seperate oil and coolant radiators. also i think that the tempest oil and coolent systems both run through the nose 'scoop'. if you are asking a general question about how to manage the oil temprature, then the answer would be to manage revs and power. if you are asking about a plane where the two systems are separate, i have no idea and someone else needs to answer! |
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#98
01-28-2012, 11:07 PM
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Strange, i'm yet to blow up a single engine up in 4.11, despite flying co-ops in 4.11 most nights since release.
What am i doing wrong? |
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#99
01-28-2012, 11:09 PM
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1) Altitude is really important for the Mustang. Maybe more than most late war fighters. The Mustang has less power and typically greater weight (unless you really drop back the fuel load) than some of its opponents so you need to start with some sort of energy advantage. Altitude is easiest but speed is good too. Against some of the real climb monsters you want to avoid getting low and enabling them to climb up above you. 2) Fly "smoothly". This is harder to describe but it's something I learned to do playing Air Racing servers. Minimal control inputs except when desired is the key to this style of flight. I don't make sudden movements...everything is very calm and controlled whereas before I used to fly much more harshly. The Mustang benefits from this because of it's sudden stall (laminar flow wings and the weight of the aircraft tend to exacerbate this) and because it's aerodynamics matter more than anything else. 3) In combat I will often fly the lag pursuit style of maneuvering. I won't match an enemy aircraft move for move like I might in a Yak or early 109. Instead I use overhead yo-yo and lag pursuit to position myself for a shot. 4) When managing the engine I tend to use the radiator controls manually. Some aircraft I'm very content with using the automatic method but in the Mustang I'm very proactive instead. If I go into a zoom climb I close it for smallest drag profile. In level flight I may open it to halfway. If I'm cruising or fighting at speed I'll drop the RPM (prop pitch) but in a climb and in some dive situations I'll ramp up the RPM. I did this before the 4.11 patch came out but I find that my technique has changed very little as I focus on keeping a cool engine for as long as possible... when it does overheat it's because I intentionally put the throttle through the WEP gate and that I really want that extra burst of speed. 5) Effective gunnery is really important in the Mustang. I tend to make most of my kills in a single pass. Two passes if necessary. My convergence with a Mustang is a bit closer in (if I remember) at 250 meters. I go for a high speed and angled shot rather than a dead 6 shot if I can. This is easier with human pilots as they tend to turn in evasive while the AI will sometimes fly straight with a greater degree of discipline than many human pilots. My best sorties in a Mustang will usually net a couple of kills depending on the server and settings. My absolute best was on Warclouds more than a few years ago where I fly a P-51D-20 and scored 4 (plus one damaged) during a furball. I spent no more than a few seconds on each target and then broke away. The Mustang is sometimes a frustrating fighter to fly. If you get used to flying other types that are more agile and more of a turn fighter that you can chuck around like the earlier 109 types or maybe the Spitfire then the Mustang can be difficult. You can't chuck it around the sky in the same way. I tend to use the rudder much less as you can really cause some bad stall situations with hard rudder use while rolling. With the FM correction to the P-51D stability in 4.10 it's gotten a bit easier but it's basically the same deal as it was before with just a little more forgiveness. In my head it all comes down to this. The Mustang has 1500ish horsepower. Similar to a Spitfire IX. Yet the top speed of a Mustang is similar to a Spitfire XIV with 2000 hp. It doesn't have the climb rate of the later Spitfire so... what the Mustang can't achieve through engine horsepower, it achieves with some of the best aerodynamic design around. Laminar flow designed wings, lowest drag coefficient of any USAAF fighter in WWII (and certainly up there with any from any nation). So whenever I fly it, my focus is always on maintaining that aerodynamic flow and using the aerodynamics for zoom climbs and staying fast. Sorry for the essay. I hope it helps a bit?
__________________
Find my missions and much more at Mission4Today.com |
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#100
01-28-2012, 11:22 PM
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Shaun, will comment on your other notes in a bit, (typing from a tablet on a boat in the harbor so a bit funny), but as to the P51, Tempy etc, ... just remember, your not downshifting or 'flying' anything. You are making responses to computer code that is written to represent someone's version of what they think the P51 flies like, and that code is discrete (in the mathematical sense of meaning phase transition endpoints). No ambiguity. When I look at the source code for the additions in 4.11 it is not that advanced as you are imagining. And as much as I like your development towards IL2 Master status, cant agree with you on the P51 being weak because it was not a 'home-defense' fighter. It was a Grade A, superlative killing machine, as long as correctly used in a boom and zoom fashion (not that many online can do that correctly). I worked a bit this morning on making some Ntrks of my P51 in action and the TA. I am in overheat all over the place, and within seconds of the actual fight starting. This just doesnt gel with what some of these WWII aviation history nuts are telling me.
More on your other comments later, when I get back to land. |
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