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#91
12-14-2011, 08:35 AM
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Another One - Fire Rage!
Okay the hamster gave me one more idea!
Once again for Orcs / Veteran Ocs - it would be called Fire Rage or something like that where the Orc goes into a fit of Rage and adds fire damage to its attack for 3 rounds (kind of like Hell Breath I guess). Thoughts? /C\/C\ 
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#92
12-14-2011, 08:38 AM
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And another - Furious for Furious Goblins!
Oh - another!
This ability will put the Furious in Furious Goblins! The ability would be simply called Furious where they would gain unlimited retaliation for a turn or two (maybe 3) and would be a charged skill (maybe just 1 or 2 charges max). They are Furious Goblins after all! Thoughts? /C\/C\
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#93
12-14-2011, 12:41 PM
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I think xoena might be doable with mass dwarf army giants jumping around, and alchemist poisoning all over place. gizmo for resurrecting, but i need some fast unit to counter demoness swap. Griffins maybe, or snakes (i have nsake boots and snake ring so it might be interesting). Here poisoning and burning works differently then AP/CW so it`s not that useful.
Annoying heroes : xeona , sonya (solo black dragons with mirror shield and wizard mantle it`s doable) , necromancer hero in undead lands with 40 int was boring as f..k but also managable (did him with mirabella full human army and 400 griffins 52lds/140hp). I didnt have a single kid with bonus exp in battle so my spirits arent much higer lvl then with mage, but i pick different skills so they play big part with 200 rage pool  maxed black hole, falling rocks 65% stun and gizmo for resurrect galore.Ill make files just of my item changes and send you to check out, but cant do it today. Glot shell is interesting to use if you have some unit like my giants griffin combo i kick griffins to aggro in middle of enemy, but teleport giant close glot shell his ass, and let him jump to hearths content, wall is great for making funnel on enemy army with 8000 hp, and 2 rest is spamable against fast units (example elf werevulf hero in underground on island valley of 100 rivers, all his units have 6-7 speed, so i send griffins 1 round to pull them and cast wall, black hole,wall and place girffins in space between walls to block and have fun. Ice thorns i never really used  Bonuses for babies are nice, and it great to have such variety but looking in general for expl neoka/gerda : neoka have 6 kids with +dmg% for all melee units , gerda have none. Changing spells hm . . . i dont think is good idea : look at your new double casting enemy heroes, i had fight with some item that got me mass deffensles and mass weakness got my fairy/sprites/dryads army to 0 defense and 0-0 dmg for whooping 5 turns thank you very much infinite tower intellect bonus If you want to change spells how about this ideas : holy rage, magic shield, poison touch spells. Explanation , holy rage like inquisitors ability to replace demon slayer and give bonus dmg against demon+undead and some small rage amount 10%/20%/20%mass bonus dmg + intellect bonus per spell lvl. Magic shield like archmages ability but to lower dmg to unit 25%/50%/50%+immunity to spells, like black dragon. Poison touch (replace poison skull) like hell breath just to add poison dmg useful against dragons/demons (this would be great in AP/CW since there poisoning burning at least work on some constant , in tL i poison some stack of 800 bowman, and next turn only 1 dies ... yea right).Oil keg for catapult nice idea, if you only could find how burning works in AP/CW and transfer it here. Flash is like mechanics blinding bomb in AP/CW right ? Trap would be better for furious goblins since they run around battlefield regular goblins are range on need for them to lost turn to place trap that enemy might never come near Furious for them, not so sure i never seen them as much dmg dealers, my main dmg are veterans/orcs, goblin range, shaman support and ogres for tanking and playing tough guy, so almost never used furious in tL (in AP they had greed to dig through corpses like marauder, and insolence) but i think in great enough numbers even furious goblins could be useful.For ogre i thought something similar, like troll malevolence in AP/CW, it would be nice to use him to stop dragons and other flying creatures. Block for orcs/veterans is miss chance , female troops have it, so why not battle crazy orcs. How much miss % did you think to give them ? Fire rage-burning blood better
Last edited by Fatt_Shade; 12-14-2011 at 01:27 PM.
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#94
12-14-2011, 06:10 PM
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Thanks for the files - I'll check them out later when I have time!
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In AP/CW it is based on the number of units in a stack that the effect is applied to and had nothing to do with damage - I personally hate that system because you can have 1 Royal Snake causing 1000's of points of damage to a stack of units with just a poison infliction. Total nonsense! The way it works in my mod it is based on damage done and then mitigation by resistance and then decays at half damage for the duration of the effect - here are a couple of examples: Example 1: Imps do 1000 damage to troop with 0 Fire Resistance with a 15% chance to burn. So there is a 15% chance that the troop will get the effect burn. If they do get the effect burn, then on their next turn, they'll get 500 damage, then 250, and then 125 for a total damage of 1875 damage over 3 rounds! That's almost twice as much damage! Example 2: Red Dragons do 2000 damage to troop with 10% Fire Resistance with a 25% chance to burn. So there is a 15% chance the troop will get the effect burn. If they do get the effect burn, then the damage is reduced by 10% and applied so it would be 1800 damage then effect burn. On that troop's turn the damage would be halved to 900 and then 10% reduction so it would 810 then 364 (I think it rounds down) and lastly 164 for a total of 3138 damage over 3 turns! Example 3: Black Dragons do 3000 damage to a troop with -50% fire Resistance and have a 35% chance to burn. So the chance to burn is 85% and damage is increased 50% so they do 4500 damage. If the troop gets the effect burn, then the damage is reduced to half, but then increased 50% due to the resistance so it would be 4500 / 2 * 1.5 = 3375 damage, then 2531, and lastly 1898 damage for a whopping total of 12304 over 3 turns! I'm actually very proud of this system and it is far superior to either TL or AP/CW since it is based on the attacker's damage and the defender's resistance. It does not use an arbitrary value like TL or AP/CW! This is something, though, that nobody notices unless they really study it. Quote:
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Ice Thorns I never got how to use it I guess. I hear some people say how much they love it, but it seems to get more in my way than the enemies!  Quote:
Maybe we trade?! As it turns out, though you've overlooked who the bonus applies to - Neoka only has 3 babies with Offense and 3 with Archery so that is 3 with +damage to melee units and 3 with +damage to ranged units. 1 baby, Ivor has both Offense and Archery so it is the equivalent of +damage for all units. I know, still poor, Gerda! Quote:
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 Those are interesting ideas, I'm just throwing out some as well. I guess for Physical Damage you have Stone Skin and all the rest Divine Armor. You know, I'm not sure if you've looked at SPELLS.LUA, but there are some spells in there that are not used, but do interesting things: Star Force - is some kind of Magic Missile (spell_magic_missle_attack)! spell_poison_resist_attack - poison resistance! spell_fire_resist_attack - fire resistance! Light Power - is some kind of Magic Fireball / Heal attack?! (spell_light_power_attack) I've been so much working on my mod, but these have always been in the back of my mind - and your suggestions are good suggestions. I'm wondering, though if it is one of those I'd like to have it, but then when you get it you find out that you don't use it that much things. What I mean is that Stone Skin is pretty standard so that gets put in there. So you have Physical Resistance taken care of. Then you dabble with Fire and Poison and then you create Divine Armor. So are you really going to use the Fire Resistance and then Divine Armor in consecutive spell casts? So I'm just putting myself in the developers shoes and maybe that's why they decided not to implement it. This is still great stuff to think about, though, and I'm seriously considering them! Quote:
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I'm going to seriously consider that as well. Quote:
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Yah, I like the Fire Rage for them! That would be cool! Maybe another attack to poison their blades - not sure what to call that one! Well thanks for posting your comments! There a lot of good ideas swirling around - I hope to capture a few of them!  /C\/C\
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#95
12-14-2011, 10:26 PM
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What got me stuck about burning/poisoning is that i have thorns and sprites that have basic dmg 1-2/1-3 , with poison dagger and whip of ishara + blackthorn crown for thorns it goes to , 4-6/3-5 so approximately 25% dmg for thorns is fire 25% poison for sprites something similar, and after they burn/poison some enemy units it still make small amount of dmg in next turn.
That 800 bowman example : it was something around 820 i hit them with thorns and kill 80 ( 2800 dmg so it 700 fire, 700 poison, and 1400 physical and they catch burning) next turn only 1 dies and as you say it should make 350 dmg since they have 0 fire resistance. killing at least 10 units, not only 1. I`ll try to do same think fighting only with my thorns to check it out, but i think your setting got confused because +1 fire/poison items. Did you consider that option : having ancient ents with 100 dmg and using whip of ishara +1 fire dmg ? How would that work considering burning enemy units? Griffins i had mirabella -8%lds / +8%hp, and kid_edric -18% /+18% hp, glory -10% , so basic 80 lds got to 52 , and with kid_rion +16%hp, and healer 3rd lvl it goes from basic 90hp to sweet 137 hp, 3rd lvl griffin So with griffin banner it would be ridiculous (28 lds griffin) To bad it gives only lds for griffin, and no other bonus.Neoka/gerda problem continuum every lore we have about elves is that they are race of magic users and that they thrive on magic, and dwarfs are miners and used to get their hands dirty in fighting (pulling their beards, breaking beer mugs on each other heads etc), so that`s why i stuck me that neoka elf princess have bonus for so much battle oriented kids, and gerda for none.@ Now you have a use for Dispel! Hm warrior with 3 sprite units, ancient ent and thorn hunter, yea i`ll dispel them right after i kill almost every enemy with rage spirits then spend 10 turns resurrecting my dead troops who were almost useless during whole battle Spell usage, and spells that are worthless . . . great thing about this game is options you have at disposal. 7 races, 70 spells, bunch of items and skills, and no1 actually know of possible army builds so it`s just question of how imaginative you are and how long you can stick with starting plan and restrictions : i decided to play all game with only this units/spell/rage spirit skills . . . then during that playthrough you figure some other interesting things. In AP there is tread crazy challenges where ppl get to really weird ideas to play this game, and just drop really interesting ideas and possibilities So i think every unit/item/spell in this game some use and it`s place in order of things . . . except peasants they are f...ing useless
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#96
12-16-2011, 12:56 AM
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Not sure what's going on with that +Poison or Fire Damage
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So this sounds weird to me. The troop receiving damage should not be poisoned or catch fire just because of the Poison Dagger or Isshara's Whip. I guess we'll have to research this more deeply to find out what is going on - I know that I pretty thoroughly checked this part of my mod because I wanted to make sure I got it right, but I'm pretty sure I didn't check it with either of those weapons equipped. I've got both of them (hopefully I didn't sell the dagger, but can go back to a saved game if I did) so I can check what you're seeing. I know that it is possible to get a unit with high resistance (but less than 80% - if the resistance is 80% or higher then poison or burn effects aren't applied) and then they get very unlucky and get poisoned or burned the damage is reduced significantly and so you'll see very low damage numbers in that case - like when the Phoenix burns an Imp. I also added the capability, though, if a unit's resistance is greater than 0, then that resistance becomes their chance to resist the effect on successive turns. So if a unit has 50% resistance, for example, and they get a damage effect that matches that resistance, on the next turn they have a 50% chance of resisting that effect altogether and it being removed. Looks like we need to check this out more and find out exactly what's going on here...  Quote:
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Let's see:
Only 3 of those children have Offense: 1 is an Elf so he goes to Neoka, the other two are Planeswalkers and are Magic and Psychic Elementals. Psychic Elementals were the base unit and then they became Magic Elementals for their upgrade unit in HOMM3. So it fell out that way for Neoka as all those children made sense since they were either Rangers (Elves) or Magic-using Planeswalkers (the Magic lends itself to Elves). For Gerda, she just didn't get any babies with HOMM3 Offense. Orcelyn got a lot of the Barbarian Babies because of the Orc tie in - a lot of them have HOMM3 Offense. Orcelyn may have gotten a baby or two from Gerda when I added her. Kilgor might have been Gerda's, but I gave him to Orcelyn because of Behemoths (which was an Orc town unit in HOMM3). Young Yog went to Orcelyn, because in HOMM3 he wanted to be a Barbarian. I guess a case could be made to give him to Gerda, but he wants to be a Barbarian. Sorry that's about the only kid I can think of moving to Gerda, Young Yog's HOMM3 Skills are: Offense, Ballistics, and Cyclopses. Young Yog is a Male Genie Wizard (who in HOMM3 wanted to become a Barbarian). Normal Yog is a Male Genie and so goes to Diana, but like Young Sandro, Young Gem, and Young Christain, I didn't want to give the younger version of the same hero to the same wife. Young Yog could have been given to any other wife besides Diana, but he seemed a great fit for Orcelyn because of the Barbarian Town / Orc linkage in HOMM3. So that's why it played out that way... Sorry, Gerda! Quote:
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/C\/C\
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#97
12-16-2011, 06:00 AM
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OK i checked poisoning effect : 480 dwarfs i killed 120 with royal snakes and poisoned them, next turn only 32 die from poison effect (and by your explanation should be 60). Try that combination, royal snakes special attack have 100% poisoning so it`s easy to check does it work. That situation with 800 bowman and burning might be because i used hell breath on thorn hunters, and it`s not related to ishara whip.
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#98
12-16-2011, 03:47 PM
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Not necessarily... check this out...
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What makes Royal Snakes more complicated is that their normal damage is physical. So a unit's physical resistance comes into play and that is the damage that will go into the features_poison function inside UNIT_FEATURES.LUA. I'll give a little mini-tutorail about the code in there, but first let's discuss the Royal Snake's attacks. The Royal Snake's normal attack has a 30% chance to poison and its "lunge" attack a 100% chance to poison (check SNAKE_ROYAL.ATOM). However, dwarves have at least 7 resist all (I think it is 8 in impossible due to the +25% increase) and possibly more if they are with a hero. I'm not sure which situation you're dealing with, but you'll need to look at the Dwarve's resistances (or really just poison). I'm pretty sure the flying damage numbers above the unit's head should be the damage that goes into the features_poison function. This serves as a mini tutorial, but here's the code: Code:
function features_poison( damage, addrage, attacker, receiver, minmax )
if ( minmax == 0 )
and damage > 0 then
--local receiver=Attack.get_target(1) -- êîãî?
local poison = tonumber( Attack.get_custom_param( "poison" ) )
poison = effect_chance( poison, "effect", "poison" )
local poison_res = Attack.act_get_res( receiver, "poison" )
local rnd = Game.Random( 100 )
local poison_chance = math.min( 100, poison * ( 1 - poison_res / 100 ) )
local poison_damage = damage * poison_chance / 200
if rnd < poison_chance
and not Attack.act_feature( receiver, "golem" ) then -- and (not Attack.act_feature(receiver,"poison_immunitet") or Attack.act_race("undead")) then
effect_poison_attack( receiver, 0, 3, poison_damage, poison_damage )
end
end
return damage, addrage
end
It's possible that in your case, you're using the Royal Snake's base attack, I don't know, but let's use both examples with the Dwarve's base resistance and follow the code: Code:
local poison = tonumber( Attack.get_custom_param( "poison" ) )
poison = effect_chance( poison, "effect", "poison" )
With the "lunge" attack, poison = 100 The second line would apply a modifier to the chance poison if the hero had an item with a bonus here. In this case, though, I don't think I have any items with a specific poison chance bonus (this is to allow people to mod my mod in the future with their own bonuses!) so the values above aren't modified. Next: Code:
local poison_res = Attack.act_get_res( receiver, "poison" )
local rnd = Game.Random( 100 )
local poison_chance = math.min( 100, poison * ( 1 - poison_res / 100 ) )
local poison_damage = damage * poison_chance / 200
Case 1 (base attack): poison_chance = min between( 100 and 30 * ( 1 - 8 / 100 ) ) = 27.6 Case 2 (lunge attack): poison_chance = min between( 100 and 100 * ( 1 - 8 / 100 ) ) = 92 So those are the two chances to cause poison based on whichever attack the Royal Snake is using if the Dwarve's resistance is 8%. Code:
local poison_damage = damage * poison_chance / 200 Case 1: poison_damage = 12,000 * 27.6 / 200 = 1656 Cast 2: poison_damage = 12,000 * 92 / 200 = 5520 So the chance to cause the damage goes into how effective the poisoning (in this case) is. Note that the reason why it is 200 is because I'm halving the damage (it could have just as easily been written as X / 100 / 2, but I combined the 2 values). I neglected to mention that the chance applies as well in my previous post, but this is the way it works per the code. Code:
if rnd < poison_chance
and not Attack.act_feature( receiver, "golem" ) then -- and (not Attack.act_feature(receiver,"poison_immunitet") or Attack.act_race("undead")) then
effect_poison_attack( receiver, 0, 3, poison_damage, poison_damage )
end
If poison is successful, then "effect_poison_attack" is called with: 1) the receiver to apply the damage to, 2) pause (this is for timing of the display, I think), 3) duration of the effect, 4) min damage, and 5) max damage. Inside the effect_poison_attack function (inside SPELL_EFFECTS.LUA) there is a lot going on, but I essentially store the damage value on the unit (this is a neat feature of the scripting engine that the developers implemented) with the receiver's resistance used to scale up the damage back to what it would be like so: Code:
dmg_min = dmg_min * ( 1 + poisonresist / ( 100 - poisonresist ) )
dmg_max = dmg_max * ( 1 + poisonresist / ( 100 - poisonresist ) )
Case 2: dmg_min = dmg_max = 5520 * ( 1 + 8 / ( 100 - 8 ) ) = 6000 This was a little wrinkle I needed to put in because of the way the damage system works. Since the damage system applies the resistance to the damage, I didn't want the damage to be reduced by the resistance twice (once when storing and then again when computing damage) so this restores the "pre-resistance" damage and stores those values (in either case) on the unit. What happens next, is that when the receiver takes its turn the damage will be applied to the unit and the resistance will be applied - here's the code: Code:
Attack.atk_set_damage( typedmg, dmg_min, dmg_max )
-- Each successive burn causes half damage
Attack.act_spell_param( target, effect_type, "dmg_min", dmg_min / 2, "dmg_max", dmg_max / 2 )
Note that atk_set_damage applies the damage type over the range specified by the mininum and maximum damage. This is an internal King's Bounty library and so when it does this, it computes the resistance of the unit and since I can't gain access to this library that's why I had to scale the damage back up by the unit's resistance because it gets (properly) scaled down by the library function. This was quite complex and took me a while to figure out because of what "goes on under the hood" of the C/C++ library functions. So in this case, the damages will be restored to 1656 and 5520 for cases 1 and 2, respectively as applied to the unit. and then you'll note that half 1800 and 6000 (900 and 3000) will be stored on the unit so that the next turn the same thing will happen - resistance is applied, but not twice! Like I said above, I spent a lot of time working on this and before I did this, the damage would be reduced by the unit's resistance and then by its resistance again before damage was applied (that wasn't the way I wanted it to work!). There is a lot more going on inside of some of the functions I've mentioned (like how to combine successive hits), but this is how it works per the code. The funny thing is that I still don't get the same answer you do: Case 1 apply 1656 damage to Dwarves - number killed: 1656 / 100 = 16.56 (or 16) Case 2 apply 5520 damage to Dwarves - number killed: 5520 / 100 = 55.2 (or 55) So in case 1 I get half what you mentioned and in case 2 quite a bit more. So you'll have to see what the Dwarve's actual resistance is and also the damage for your case, but this is how it works exactly per the code. Anyway, I hope that explains it and this is also a mini-tutorial for how to apply a damage effect and work with the damage library. /C\/C\
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#99
12-21-2011, 04:26 PM
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Finally i finished playthrough in this mod (had a lot work past days), and it was great. ! more time thx for great mod Matt.
I managed impossible/no loss and it was hard in some fights ( Raab Soten, Baal . . . pretty much any hero with intellect above 30 was boring to fight because double/triple cast but it was worth it Found some weird thing in magic hero fights, when they cast some mass spell mana spent is like for 1 target (expl : Haas cast mass defenseless and spend only 8 mana(instead 40) , or mass magic shackles for 10 (instead 50). If enemy heroes got 2/3 spell casts per turn at least they should pend mana same as player hero. I`m not sure is this bug, or error in code but pls check it out. It`s bad enough to have enemy with 50/60 mana regen per turn, without them casting spells on low prices And what did you give to Sonya as speciality ( i now remember her, but other enemy heroes also have this) her dryads are 2 lvl unit, but had 12-16 dmg(1-4 basic), so WTF did you put in her inventory for her to have that stats on dryads ? Dark mistycus hero(necromancer in death valley) had necromancers with 250 hp and 20-30 dmg . . . I saw dwarfs with 20-32 dmg (they had bonus fire dmg, but not form hell breath, didnt have buff in their stats screen). Every hero that have some unit speciality that unit have sick stats in battle. It`s not impossible to win this mod, but all i`m saying is that player cant ever get units in his army to that stats so it`s a little frustrating In the end, i can say warrior with rina/feanora/mirabella/diana/neoka/xeona working without problems. Also had couple ideas, so what you ppl think about this ? Priest have 26 hp, and heal 2x10hpm but cant cast it on undead as dmg.Heal spell can be used as dmg for undead, so why not priest healing ability? I would lower it to 5 heal (when you lead more then 90 priests you dont have unit that can be healed for that much hp 90priest*10heal), and reload 2 so it wouldn`t be used 2 times in row then gift and imba dmg to undead. Thought`s ? ( i got this idea in just finished game i had 1400 priests, and who need 14000 hp healing ? so i thought to make them a bit more useful in fights against undead). You did nice thing with healer skill and heal/revive abilities , so i though to add something similar to other units that have active abilities. In necromancy add bonus for necromancer animate dead , in archmage add bonus for druid summon (more bears), for evil beholder hypnotise (higher lds), alchemist potions (more dmg), shaman totems (more hp) and such. I`ll check rest of your modding manual, but i hope to do it without big problems. Last edited by Fatt_Shade; 12-21-2011 at 09:05 PM.
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#100
12-21-2011, 10:33 PM
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Super Awesome!
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 But only a little bit, I've been experimenting with dropping unit morale as a function of combat duration as well as their initiative and speed (they are getting tired after all!). I've been limiting morale drop to everyone except Undead and Golems, but am not sure what to do with the Undead, Golems, and Plants with respect to speed and initiative. On the one hand, Undead, Golems, and Plants probably don't really get tired, but I was thinking that maybe since magic is decreasing the control of your Undead troops would start to wane, which would reduce their initiative and then speed. I was thinking of leaving Plants and Golems alone since they are different. Anyway, just struggling with what to do there... The way it works now is that when the first long battle message occurs is that all units (except Undead and Golems) decrease 1 morale. Then when the second long battle message occurs, all units continue to decrease 1 morale (Undead and Golems are still not included), and all units (except Plants and Golems) drop 1 initiative. Then on the third long battle message, all troops continue to drop 1 morale (except those previously excluded), and then all troops drop 1 initiative and speed (except Plants and Golems). Lastly, for each successive set of stat decrease rounds (every 5 on impossible), morale, initiatve, and speed all continue to drop as they did before. This simulates your troops becoming more and more tired. This only applies to your troops as the enemy troops have no morale penalties (this is internal to the game apparently) and for initiative and speed I figured that since they are the defenders then that's their "homefield" advantage. Also, I've added charges to all reloadable attacks so that for long combats every troop will eventually run out of using their special abilities since they are getting tired of fighting. The minimum round at which a troop will run out of an attack if they use it as soon as possible through their normal reload time is round 15. So that is plenty of time to use those abilities and you can always use Gift on them (same with AI). I'm still experimenting with both of these changes... but I think that these won't have much an effect on combat since by round 15 pretty much everyone is dead anyway, except for maybe a few of the enemy hero battles. Also, you can always use Haste and Battle Cry to give your troops a speed or initiative boost as well as Gift to recharge their attacks in the latter rounds... You have an interesting use for the word boring! Quote:
I thought I worked around it successfully and actually thought the mana was being subtracted correctly, but it looks like I might still be undershot by the internal workings of that part of the game. I'll look into it some more, but I'm probably stuck there! Quote:
I'll lay it out sometime, because I'm going to use a similar system with AP/CW... Mysticus is awesome! So is Raab Sotten and Baal like they should be! Like I mentioned previously, a hero with a level higher than yours is going to be pretty tough! Quote:
By the way what were the final levels of your spirits with the Warrior? Did you get any up to level 40 or so?Can you do me a favor and snap a screenshot (or two) of your hero's stat's and army setup after defeating Haas so I can see what you ended the game with? I'm just curious and it'll help me gauge some things... Quote:
These are all excellent ideas - I'm pretty sure I have all the bonuses in place and just need to add them to the skill. I'll look into implementing them! By the way, Erkki found an error in my implementation of the Shaman Dancing Axes skill so I'll have a fix out for that soon... Have a happy holiday season! /C\/C\
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Linear Mode
