The Northrop Grumman Issue.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Krt_Bong

It might be wishful thinking but there are already some mod Models of some of these planes and though they might not be Official it doesn't mean we can't get them and install them in our game and I think there is nothing NG could do about it.

The number one rule for lawyers is litigate the person with the best ability to pay.

As the modders and individual users generally have no money and no relevant insurance no legal action will occur unless somehow UBI/Maddox can be held responsible or can be shown to be endorsing or encouraging the mods ... in which case rest assured the NG lawyers will spring into action and hit up UBI/Maddox for more money. Its not worth NGs time to bother with mod creators or individual users, they are small fry.

Originally Posted by Krt_Bong

If as you say it was signed and contracted well then they have my sympathy because I fully believe UBI could have rebuffed them but they let Oleg swing in the wind instead.

If you read up what actually happened, NG waited until one week before the global release of Pacific Fighters to threaten an injunction preventing release of the game until the case could be heard by some California Court maybe a year or two down the track. Whilst NG seems to have had minimal legal grounds for their claims rebuffing them probably would have meant a large delay in the release of Pacific Fighters.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

Northrop-Grumman took legal action against Ubisoft over the unlicensed use of trademarks they own (specifically, "Grumman") on the Pacific Fighters box and packaging. This legal action was perfectly justified.

UbiSoft and Maddox games jointly settled out of court with Northrop-Grumman. However, Ubisoft provided very bad legal assistance to Oleg, regardless of what he has been led to believe and has said. It is obvious his limited english and complete unfamiliarity with the American legal system were both taken advantage of.

The settlement covered the unauthorized use of a Northrop-Grumman trademark. Perfectly reasonable.

Northrop-Grumman, however, took advantage of the situation to also advance their demands for licensing fees to depict WWII era material. This has no legal basis, despite what they may claim. This has been established in court.

Despite this, as they had Ubisoft and Maddox Games at their mercy, Northrop-Grumman also legally bound them to pay exhorbant licensing fees to use any aircraft (or other material) that Northrop-Grumman claimed intellectual ownership of. Ubisoft's legal representation to Oleg presented the situation inaccurately, convincing Oleg that he had no choice or hope but to accept their demands. Regardless of the previous legal veracity of their claims, Northrop-Grumman now DOES have the legal right to demand licensing from Oleg.

The final insult was that Ubisoft, who commited the original infringement (as they are responsible for product packaging, and thus the infringing text on the box), made Oleg pay Northrop-Grumman the settlement.

Heroes of the Pacific (the creators of which, IRGurus, I spoke to personally) and Blazing Aces both feature various 'disputed' aircraft because Ubisoft didn't screw up the box on those and because those developers happened to speak fluent English and thus could fend of Northrop-Grummans baseless claims. N-G did approach IRGurus (who made Heroes), but was rebuffed and did not make further demands.

The settlement also stipulated that the matter not be discussed publicly (since it obviously would show the true colors of two out of three parties involved), which is why any and all threads that bring this matter up are deleted.

The only group who benefitted were the lawyers of a multi-billion dollar defense contractor. A multi-million dollar global game publisher sidestepped the blame and the fine. Ultimately, a dedicated Russian development studio, many of those working on a project for them at the time, those peoples' immediate families, the project's fans, and legal precedent all suffered.

I know. I built the P-61. Kami had a finished B-29 interior. An underway TBF cockpit and a completely finished Yorktown carrier were yanked. Other content that was planned, in progress, or even finished--some of it expensive--was discarded. Some artists who had devoted extraordinary time and made significant personal sacrifices to contribute to Pacific Fighters were never compensated and almost didn't even get acknowledged.

All of which Northrop-Grumman and Ubisoft have demanded be kept secret.

I, however, am not going to take this anymore. This entire post will be permanently saved to another location. I will link to it whenever the subject is broached. If I am banned, I will make sure it is publicly known here that this is why.

Oleg was taken advantage of in a horrible way, by those who stood to lose nothing and who had no support for their demands. We owe him our efforts to correct that.

This is funny what do you expect to accomplish. People no longer react to unfairness or damages to other persons. They just don't give a whit. You can view all manner of unfairness and massacre on TV and it doesn't move people to action. There was a time when public opinion meant something. That is pretty a non-issue today. The politicians, government, and courts do what they want to do for the most part.

[Adhocrat]

I think the Il-2 community should take a stand. Join me in boycotting all Northrop-Grumman products. If ever you're procuring aircraft for your nation's armed forces, buy Boeing or BAe or Airbus Militarie or Sukhoi instead. Who's with me?

[Viking]

Originally Posted by Adhocrat

I think the Il-2 community should take a stand. Join me in boycotting all Northrop-Grumman products. If ever you're procuring aircraft for your nation's armed forces, buy Boeing or BAe or Airbus Militarie or Sukhoi instead. Who's with me?

At least the free world outside the Nato is planing in something like that. But it will be some time before they see the result as the papercurrecy is still surprisingly strong.
Wait!
Viking

[tk471138]

listen to all the slaves talking about "legal" points...and needing courts to made decisions for them seriously....why would a company in russia even care what a company in the usa says...i mean is the us going to send in special forces to get these guys to go to court?? i mean if a russian company told a us company they could not use their stuff, you think the us company would care....seriously how does one compel someone in a foreign SOVEREIGN nation to come to their court...i know i wouldnt go to a french court a british court or any other court...they would have to kill me first...(and that is after i killed a few of them in the process of trying) sure let them sue see how far they get....they try and extradite you...defend your self and if that means using violence then so be it...



second i support violent revolution against the us govt and the western establishment...you want to hurt NG use violence...that is the ONLY way....

[SaQSoN]

Oh, boy...

[ElAurens]

Some folks are truely clueless.

I think it's time for a lock on this thread actually.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by tk471138

listen to all the slaves talking about "legal" points...and needing courts to made decisions for them seriously....why would a company in russia even care what a company in the usa says...i mean is the us going to send in special forces to get these guys to go to court?? i mean if a russian company told a us company they could not use their stuff, you think the us company would care....seriously how does one compel someone in a foreign SOVEREIGN nation to come to their court...i know i wouldnt go to a french court a british court or any other court...they would have to kill me first...(and that is after i killed a few of them in the process of trying) sure let them sue see how far they get....they try and extradite you...defend your self and if that means using violence then so be it...



second i support violent revolution against the us govt and the western establishment...you want to hurt NG use violence...that is the ONLY way....

Oh you fierce internet warrior.

[Viking]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Some folks are truely clueless.

I think it's time for a lock on this thread actually.

As soon as the debate goes the "wrong" way team America wants censorship.
Today's simmers are tomorrows decision makers!
Viking

[ElAurens]

We are talking about a video game here, and you are making a political statement. Better read the rules.