The Battle of Britain Was The First Defeat For The German Luftwaffe.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by NedLynch

You know where the expression "anglo-saxon" comes from and why England is named England?

I certainly do. In fact when my sister asked me why I studied German at school rather than French, I said it was because I identified more readily with my Anglo-Saxon genes than my Norman ones.

It's also one of the reasons Hitler didn't want to go to war against Britain.

No offence to any of our French members intended, before anyone severs my jugular!

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Kongo-Otto

The USA had to show up and help you.

Not at el Alamein they didn't

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by NedLynch

The Schlieffen Plan was the German General Staff's early 20th century overall strategic plan for victory in a possible future war where it might find itself fighting on two fronts: France to the west and Russia to the east. The First World War later became such a war with both a Western Front and an Eastern Front. The plan took advantage of expected differences in the three countries' speed in preparing for war. In short, it was the German plan to avoid a two-front war by concentrating their troops in the west, quickly defeating the French and then, if necessary, rushing those troops by rail to the east to face the Russians before they had time to mobilize fully. The Schlieffen Plan was created by Count Alfred von Schlieffen and modified by Helmuth von Moltke the Younger after Schlieffen's retirement. It was Moltke who actually put the plan into action, despite initial reservations about it.[citation needed] In modified form, it was executed to near victory in the first month of World War I; however, the modifications to the original plan, a French counterattack on the outskirts of Paris (the Battle of the Marne), and surprisingly speedy Russian offensives, ended the German offensive and resulted in years of trench warfare. The plan has been the subject of intense debate among historians and military scholars ever since. Schlieffen's last words were "remember to keep the right flank strong".


Taken from wikipedea, not the all knowing source many claim it to be, but it gives you a good idea.

Yes but the Schlieffen Plan was flawed anyways and it brought the Britons in to the war.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Were still paying taxes for our cost in the war, at least germany has paid off it's debt (I heard a while back)

forgive us if we haven't made enough programmes that highlight the awfull nature of the 'firebombing' raids, and I guess at the time we were busy digging our own dead out of our own bombed cities....sorry.

Market Garden?....so it's ok for the Germans to use bad planning blah blah blah as an excuse for the 'defeat' in the BOB, and somehow we need to feel ashamed of our Paras for putting up a pretty damned good fight against overwhelming odds?

that's not what I meant Bongo, I meant that there isn't much relevance given to the criminal act of firebombing civilian targets as it should, it's not about taxes or BBC programmes.

You're doing it again Bongo, putting words in other people's mouths. Market-Garden was something to be ashamed of (under a military point of view) not because of the brave work done by your fantastic Paras, but because of that idiot that goes by the name of Montgomery, who even after the war never admitted his plan was too much of a stretch, done on poor intelligence and an unnecessary sacrifice of brave, good soldiers.

[Kongo-Otto]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Not at el Alamein they didn't

Ah really and were came your Supplies from? like the tanks and the fuel and the ammo. Without the US Supplies and the later Invasion from the US troops in Morocco, you would have lost.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

..says the one that called someone else a pr**k..

We should try and keep this conversation factual, with no national bias, but I understand it's not easy.

in fairness, i edited that very quickly, but not quick enough

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

in fairness, i edited that very quickly, but not quick enough

teehehe

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

that's not what I meant Bongo, I meant that there isn't much relevance given to the criminal act of firebombing civilian targets as it should, it's not about taxes or BBC programmes.

You're doing it again Bongo, putting words in other people's mouths. Market-Garden was something to be ashamed of (under a military point of view) not because of the brave work done by your fantastic Paras, but because of that idiot that goes by the name of Montgomery, who even after the war never admitted his plan was too much of a stretch, done on poor intelligence and an unnecessary sacrifice of brave, good soldiers.

What can I say......as far as I know it's our taxes paying to make amends for dresden and the likes, you seem to be misled over any non aknowledgement of the said raids by the British, we are fully aware of it and I don't think anybody deep down is proud of it, I'm afraid I'm at a loss why you brought market garden up at all in that case, even good commanders have made mistakes but I have already agreed with you Montgomery was a useless bellend.

[Sternjaeger II]

guys, it is a fact that Great Britain alone wouldn't have gone far, you needed to outsource from the Commonwealth and the USA to carry on fighting on so many fronts, let's never forget this.

ETO: American and Commonwealth support

MTO: same as above

PTO: Commonwealth support (in fact you left most of this to the Aussies)

[fruitbat]

As to the Bomber command raids, i don't think anyone now would say it was a good thing, but we are judging from todays standpoint and with hindsight, both of which were absent in the 40's.