Campaigns as Axis?

[gozorak]

I dont think anyone should have to qualify, or explain why they would want to play as a Luftwaffe pilot...its a freaking video game..thats all that it is...Ive never gunned down cops or innocent civilians and I never will ..but it sure as hell is fun to do in GTA4. You have to play as the Japs in Battlefield 1943...and its fun running around with your melee samuari sword killing Marines and I prefer flying the Zero in that game to the Corsair..so what..I have a blast playing through JFK Reloaded from time to time...again doesnt make me an assassin or sympathetic to assassins. Now if someone ever released Sim Concentration Camp there might be a big PR problem but I would probably play that as well because its only a game...

[Mr Greezy]

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said.

To think that by playing the Axis forces in a flight simulator is somehow glorifying the "evil Nazi cause" is a little narrow-minded. The horror stories of extermination camps and other war atrocities were committed, as someone posted earlier, by specific divisions created by Hitler to deal with those "problems". If you see SS in any German military designation, you can assume they were pretty determined in a cause that went above the "call of duty" that a regular Wermacht, Panzer, or Luftwaffe service member adhered to.

They were soldiers. And they had specific technology and tactics that would be interesting to explore.

That said, I've played plenty of games, in a campaign mode (I know, the audacity) that involved me controlling SS troops. But none of the games that I played were titled Rounding Up Jews or Expanding an Empire to Establish Racial Superiority. They were games like the original Sturmovik series, Close Combat, etc.

The men and women that were involved in the Axis forces during WWII were people too. Some of them did horrible things. Japan, Italy, Germany, all of them have a list of war crimes. But let's not say that the Allies weren't guilty of some regrettable actions. Both in WWII, Korea, Viet Nam...and...well...I always think it's funny how we frown on aggressor nations when America itself is in another country with no justified reason right now.

A lot of people paint WWII as a black and white conflict. Someone else pointed out that war is never that way. It's many shades of grey, and both sides involve human beings.

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by gozorak

I dont think anyone should have to qualify, or explain why they would want to play as a Luftwaffe pilot...its a freaking video game..thats all that it is...Ive never gunned down cops or innocent civilians and I never will ..but it sure as hell is fun to do in GTA4. You have to play as the Japs in Battlefield 1943...and its fun running around with your melee samuari sword killing Marines and I prefer flying the Zero in that game to the Corsair..so what..I have a blast playing through JFK Reloaded from time to time...again doesnt make me an assassin or sympathetic to assassins. Now if someone ever released Sim Concentration Camp there might be a big PR problem but I would probably play that as well because its only a game...

well no , an amazing amount of people are drop dead ignorant when it comes to history

alot of people actually think that everyone who fought on the german side was a die hard nazi who wanted to drink the blood of the jews.

While a good amount of people during the period were a part of the nazi party , it didnt mean they were fighting for hitler , or his ideals.

At the time in history the german people were recovering from a completely humiliating defeat in ww1 , which as a result of the treaty of versille it completely disarmed germany as a nation militarily.

Hitler was a voice of hope for germany , a beacon of light in a dark tunnel. Much like the american people looked toward obama in the recent election (not saying that obama is a nazi)

People were nazis back then because it was the "thing" to do , It was the most effective way to show your patriotism to germany (not hitler)

Now the SS , thats a different story , those guys were sworn to hitler. those were the sick fucks that you imagine when you hear the word nazi.

But again , not ALL of them were completely brainwashed sicko's , alot of them just wanted to show the most support for germany as possible by signing up for the prestigous honor of being hitlers SS.

Back to the point


There is no reason why games cannot feature a story of the german soldier or pilot . Because a vast majority of them were fighting for their rights as a nation like anyone else

[gozorak]

I also think that many german pilots while weary of the war and its costs, particularly late in the day, nevertheless felt a heavy responsibility and duty to defend german cities from the mass bombing attacks carried out by the allies. Most bombs dropped, the vast majority in fact, never hit their intended targets. Many civilians were killed of course and whole cities were leveled. Then of course there was the intentional destruction of civilians and cities through firebombing. I think looking back, as horrific as the toll must have been on the German people, on the Japanese people as well, it was a toll that had to be paid considering their complicity in the rise of the nationalistic militancy in both countries that set the world to a war of unmatched brutality, death, and destruction.

Having said that, I can understand and even empathize with the german fighter pilot and the seemingly hopeless circumstances he found himself in as the end was near.

[SleepTrgt]

Originally Posted by gozorak

I also think that many german pilots while weary of the war and its costs, particularly late in the day, nevertheless felt a heavy responsibility and duty to defend german cities from the mass bombing attacks carried out by the allies. Most bombs dropped, the vast majority in fact, never hit their intended targets. Many civilians were killed of course and whole cities were leveled. Then of course there was the intentional destruction of civilians and cities through firebombing. I think looking back, as horrific as the toll must have been on the German people, on the Japanese people as well, it was a toll that had to be paid considering their complicity in the rise of the nationalistic militancy in both countries that set the world to a war of unmatched brutality, death, and destruction.

Having said that, I can understand and even empathize with the german fighter pilot and the seemingly hopeless circumstances he found himself in as the end was near.

Yea its a bit same as calling the Kamikazes crazy,
While these young boys lost their whole families on airstrikes.
And with the japanese spirit and such.
They just gave it all to scare away the Americans.
They would die anyway, why not a hero?

[xNikex]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

well no , an amazing amount of people are drop dead ignorant when it comes to history

alot of people actually think that everyone who fought on the german side was a die hard nazi who wanted to drink the blood of the jews.

While a good amount of people during the period were a part of the nazi party , it didnt mean they were fighting for hitler , or his ideals.

At the time in history the german people were recovering from a completely humiliating defeat in ww1 , which as a result of the treaty of versille it completely disarmed germany as a nation militarily.

Hitler was a voice of hope for germany , a beacon of light in a dark tunnel. Much like the american people looked toward obama in the recent election (not saying that obama is a nazi)

People were nazis back then because it was the "thing" to do , It was the most effective way to show your patriotism to germany (not hitler)

Now the SS , thats a different story , those guys were sworn to hitler. those were the sick fucks that you imagine when you hear the word nazi.

But again , not ALL of them were completely brainwashed sicko's , alot of them just wanted to show the most support for germany as possible by signing up for the prestigous honor of being hitlers SS.

Back to the point


There is no reason why games cannot feature a story of the german soldier or pilot . Because a vast majority of them were fighting for their rights as a nation like anyone else

Nicely put...

[reverend66]

This game & other flight sims are not about the holocaust. All but a handfull of Germans had no idea of Hiltler's sick ideals until after the war. They clung to any leader that would take them out of the depression they were left with after WWI. As Anton stated in an earlier post pilots were knights (especially early in the war). In fact if a pilot crippled anothers plane in a battle they would often let them go (even fly next to them & salute).
I used to fly for the german (not Nazi) side in computer flight sims. Without opposing sides a "game" is just a shooting gallery. I have family that fought in WWII and hold no ill toward thier one time enemy only toward war itself. You can not really believe that every german soldier had no concious & was out to exterminate a race (many of whom they were related). When people are drowning they will cling to anything. Just try and go to Germany & wear a swastika, they wont arrest you because of pride lost, they will take you away because of shame. Shame for what thier country is remembered for yet the regular people/soldiers knew nothing about.

[haitch40]

hitler was evil but the german people gave him a chance because the economy was so bad i mean before hitler 1 loaf of bread cost a wheelbarrow of money so every1 saw him as a way out not because every1 was sick and wanted to kill jews
(btw i dont support hitler i support a democracy and people's wellbeing)

[dandymountfarto]

throughout history, every nation has committed crimes against humanity - no exceptions. its not just nazi germany that is guilty.

think of north and south america before the europeans arrived, but thats ok becuase the native people wrent god fearing christians, to the extent that it was ok to be a native just as long as you stayed put on your little "reserve" as a museum exhibit for all the "developed" people to point and stare at.

slavery was rife under the British Empire - and how did Britain acquire their empire? it wasnt by asking for it nicely - and anyone who opposed was villified by historians in the name of patriotism. how is that any different from nazi germany? or stalinist russia?

noone on this forum is condoning or supporting the atrocities of the second world war, but just dont think it was only the axis forces that were reponsible for "evil" deeds.

anyway i feel this topic has gone way to deep for a forum about a flight sim. as an aircraft enthusiast, its a shame not more examples of axis machinery survive, particularly airworthy ones. i would love to see fw-190's and bf110's flying alongside mustangs, spitfires etc they were machines built for a purpose, regardless of political alignment.

[haitch40]

yeh the english comited tons of war crimes (im english ) and yes id love to see japanese aircraft on desplay in museums (there is a museum somewhere in the us that shows the last serviving J7W Shinden prototype which is 1 of my favourite aircraft) and german aircraft
btw i have a german friend on psn and he isnt some nazi suporter or anything no sane person is.