4.12.2M Spitfires outperform 109?

[Petresko]

I've tried everything with the 109s against all spitfires.
I don't know if it's from the SAS modact or it's just Spitfire bias,but at any altitude they just outperform 109s.
I tried zooming away / outclimbing them,but they catch up every time.
How do you deal with Spitfires in the 109?

[Bouma004]

Witch kind of Spitfire and 109 ? I suggest to consult the IL2 Compare Software to compare performance. Here is an example.

Bt 109 F4 vs Spitfire Mk V M45 12lbs



IL2 Compare 4.11m (almost the same FM's of 4.12.2m and 4.13.3m)

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AutwPlOKpNiE7wnZhn1BYJ0xED5J

This video can help i think.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtUGlkDDOjQ

A track 109 vs Spit (Ace)
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AutwPlOKpNiE7won0xQzGxuux9pp

[vpmedia]

All flight models were reverted to stock around Modact 5.0 for online compatibility reasons.

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by Petresko

I've tried everything with the 109s against all spitfires.
I don't know if it's from the SAS modact or it's just Spitfire bias,but at any altitude they just outperform 109s.
I tried zooming away / outclimbing them,but they catch up every time.
How do you deal with Spitfires in the 109?

Did you try shooting them down?

If you read your history books you will see that the Spitfire was always the equal of the 109 or better, only the 190 had the edge early on and it lost it soon enough.

It never mattered what patch of IL2 you were flying, it is brains and tactics and experience that will make the difference in who gets shot down and who does not.

You deal with Spits or any opponent in IL2 just as you would have in WWII, by getting in the sun and surprising them, or by having a good wingman to shoot them off your six.

Even in the instances in WWII where there was a "duel" between two pilots the one with the experience and natural ability is the one that won.

If you get shot down by a Spit it is your fault, you must have gotten yourself at a disadvantage. If you get into a Spit vs. an IL2 pilot that is actually good at flying a 109 he will shoot you to pieces all day long even in silly duels. Same thing with a good pilot in a Spit, he will shoot down 109s all day long until he runs into someone with more experience and more tricks.

The Ace AI for IL2 has always been easy to beat with a little experience and knowledge about it's limits.

I was surprised a few days ago to see that a few new patches had popped up since I have not flown IL2 for the last year or so. I was excited to see all the "improvements" listed for the AI so I patched my install up and got into a 109 vs. an Ace Yak expecting to get shot down but shot it down as usual. Then I jumped into a 190a5 vs. four ace 1943 Spits and was surprised to shoot them all down, just like riding a bicycle the same old rusty flying that worked in every patch still works, AI is still boring and predictable.

I am still grateful that a group of people work to make patches for a flight sim that hardly anyone is still flying though, thank-you.....

The oldest myth in IL2 is that some particular aircraft is "uber" and can make anyone who flies it unbeatable........nope.

[Pugo3]

I had a Windows XP computer some years ago and had the stock 4.07 installed - I had great offline dogfights with the original AI, albeit having to put up with some of the original AI characteristics. The combats were such that many times the outcome was uncertain - I'm not looking to club baby seals, I want a good balanced fight with the aircraft reasonably within historic fact, and I expect to get shot down myself sometimes, the best aces did.

I then purchased a new computer with Win7 installed; it was loaded for gaming purposes and was in every way superior to my antique Win XP. However, it dawned on me after some time flying that while the graphics were definitely superior, the flyable aircraft I used were all noticeably diminished in performance, especially speed which is pretty much the foundation of all maneuvers.

I tried all sorts of remedies to overcome this, but to no avail. I inquired on various forums, and no one reported having encountered this problem. It effected all flight simms I flew, and all Il-2 1946 mods I subsequently loaded. HSFX helped a bit with their 'Expert mode' modified flight models for some of the aircraft I fly, particularly the Fw 190 and 109's. My computer is a duo core, so pretty long in the tooth, but perhaps you have a similar processor.

Also, Il-2 1946 modified flight models beginning with 411 greatly boosted the Spitfires performance, and significantly diminished the 190 and 109's performance, especially with turning - not saying it's wrong, but it will come as a shock if you were flying the earlier loads.

Finally, there is the lovely Il-2 "realistic mode" [thanks guys!] which I say yes and no. Yes, aircraft varied and wartime events took their toll, especially with the confusion and disruptions of Germany towards the war end. But most pilots flew one dedicated aircraft until lost in combat, or the to end of the war, supported by a highly trained and passionate ground crew chief working closely with his pilot to keep the aircraft in top condition. In Il-2 1946, EVERY FLIGHT SESSION gives different performance, and this often severely impacts the combat experience you have. I can fight spitfires straight up most times, but when my aircraft has diminished engine performance, diminished roll rate, having odd or out of balance control input responses, aileron sticking etc, and my opponent is rocket powered, we're no longer in the realm of reality. This caused me alot of frustration for a time, but I learned to use one of the other mod loads until I find one that is not so out of wack. I sometimes add greater fuel load to the opponent aircraft to bring it's performance back closer to reality. I do speed runs with the opponent chasing me and see if I have the proper advantage [Il-2 compare], but even with this method if the overamping of the 'reality mode' misfire is too great to overcome, you just move on the another game.

As for 109's and 190's vs Spits, as an example of how it's done, I recommend you view Leo 'Black 13' here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgowSRyhioQ

He flys 109's equally as masterfully, but a well flown 190 is devastating to any spit, any time, if you use the aircraft's strengths. Yes, a spit can turn horizontally, but were not racing Le Mons here are we? You beat him with your all around control harmony, topped off by those deadly ailerons, and of course, with intelligent and quick thinking.

Good hunting, hope this helps somewhat.

p3