Il-2 MODs

[carguy_]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2300

This thread shows the situation. I stress, the mod supporters were never able to deny valid vanilla supporters` arguments.

I got over it some time ago as I quit IL2 in 2007. The thing worthy of remembering is what kind of people former IL2 community had all along. Sad.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

If you don't play il2 then why are you even here? It's only your opinion that the anti-modders arguments were unasailable. Here it is over a year later and all the doom and gloom the anti-modders were wailing about never came to be.

[Brain32]

Why wouldn't he be here? This is 1C games forum, and since there's still no official forum for Storm Of War this is the place to be.
And actually he is damn right, there are issues about the modding that fanatic suporters never managed to deny - because it's impossible.

Here it is over a year later and all the doom and gloom the anti-modders were wailing about never came to be.

No? Really? Well how to F would you know if you are only playing with mods? Let's just say that a "birdie" told me how many people were caught to use mods on a declared non-mod server - the number is downright SHOCKING!!! And those were caught, how many were smart enough not to be caught?

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Brain32

Why wouldn't he be here? This is 1C games forum, and since there's still no official forum for Storm Of War this is the place to be.
And actually he is damn right, there are issues about the modding that fanatic suporters never managed to deny - because it's impossible.

No? Really? Well how to F would you know if you are only playing with mods? Let's just say that a "birdie" told me how many people were caught to use mods on a declared non-mod server - the number is downright SHOCKING!!! And those were caught, how many were smart enough not to be caught?

So ... all the mods are cheats right?

Y'see the thing that you don't get is that while there may be cheat mods out there.. I can't deny that.. I haven't seen any but I cant deny that they exist... but here you say
that because a person is using mods they can't possibly know about cheats.. what.. you think it is like some kind of virus or something...

MODS DO NOT EQUAL CHEATS. JUST BECAUSE A PERSON USES MODS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE/SHE CONDONES OR PRACTICES CHEATING.

Just because a person uses mods does not mean that their version of the sim is hot and ready to become a cheat factory. That is not how the mods work. The majority of those mods have nothing to do with FMs or DMs at all....

Originally Posted by Seeker

ROFL at Bearcat using "integrity".

Well maybe you just hang out with the wrong class of people.. All the ones I hang out with on either side if the mods issue wouldn't think a victory gained by a cheat was worth the time it took to achieve.

I do think that if a server host wants a mod free server he is entitled to that regardless to the mod. I have come to see these mods however as more functionality. While as I asid I am sure there are FDW mods.. most of them just add functionality.

[fly_zo]

... this discussion was pointless a year ago but now it's just ridiculous . Same arguments all over again ... one would think that "purist" would come out with new ammunition by now .

It's nice to see that Brain32 hasn't lost his edge though .... pozdrav tebi i Kuni

Anyway , i just stopped to wish you all happy and prosperous New Year ... modders and purists

regards
z
p.s. still missing Evgeny around here ...

[Brain32]

Originally Posted by fly_zo

It's nice to see that Brain32 hasn't lost his edge though .... pozdrav tebi i Kuni

I never lost my edge, you would think my name is Ivica, but it's not
Anyway you know I was never pro or anti mod, I consider myslef one of the "silent majority" the problem is...I rarely stay silent about anything lol

Originally Posted by fly_zo

Anyway , i just stopped to wish you all happy and prosperous New Year ... modders and purists

Thx, Sretna Nova Godina

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

That thread shows a lot more than I think you realize. I think everyone here should take the time to read that thread. All 100+ pages of it and compare it to the reality 12+ months later.. Very interesting stuff. That 113 page thread thread went from 11/21/07 to 1/10/08 and pretty much covered just about every argument pro and con on the mods.

Funny enough, main points against the mods stand strong as the facts are very simple and undeniable.

Carguy the " mod supporters", at least the ones here, don't have to deny jack. The history speaks for itself. The work speaks for itself. Look at that thread. Really read the whole thing, including many of your posts, and compare it with the facts of today.. Oh.. that's right.. you cant do that... you quit IL2 when that thread was being made most likely.. because it was the end of the world right?

I`m not one bit surprised that you keep on spilling the same BS. After all, you were one of the first to force the mod support topics into the IL2 forums which led others to follow.
What history?Work?Oh, you mean the numerous quotes from the 1C officials that accept the mods - a blatant cracking of the IL2 code and Maddox intellectual property?

Oh that`s quite right - as far as I`m concerned there aren`t any such quotes, because 1C position on mods stays the same.

And might I repeat the main point - whatever happens to the IL2 code stays in decision of the legitimate decision maker which is Oleg Maddox I believe.
Anything done to damage his intelectual property is wrong, hence the mods are also wrong.

It`s obvious that I don`t have the knowledge of the 2008 year practice with mods because I quit in December 2007.
The rules are clear enough though and did not change. I don`t really need to know anything more.

So basically anything you have to say on the subject is coming from misinformation and speculation on what happened in other sims way back when.. Y'know, it's interesting. 95% of the stuff in there as far as worries and prophecies of doom for online flying in IL2 from several people, YOU included, have not even come to pass. Not even close. Right now there are over 600 folks on HL.. on a Tuesday @1915 EST. So much for the death of online play...

As far as online goes, the end of it came when flying online on CRT=2 servers with switched FM parameters was tested with a positive result.

Fair and square flying became non existant. If the year 2008 proved anything - it proved that what is valuable for IL2 fans and cheat free online society supporters, is next to nothing for those willing to consume new - uncertified - addons to the game just to suit their consumerism needs.

So don`t twist my words. I have always meant end of fair online play, not all of the IL2 online gaming.

I said it then.. I'll say it now... the sim is hacked. Get over it.

Confirmed many times - ignorance is bliss.

If you cant do that then do like Carguy did and leave... but STFU about it because it is a moot point.

You`re right to an extent. The point of preventing the destruction of online play is moot. What is left from it is a great disapointment in people who I talked with, flew with, in my squad and others. People who proved to be two faced opportunists.

The only thing left for me from IL2 is sense of dignity and that I am, as an IL2 supporter, a man of my word.

The old arguments need to be revised. Like them or not, there is no denying that the mods have not hurt the sim. They have not ruined online flying. The expected FM & DM mods have not come en masse.... Most of the mods are functional improvements and immersion boosters.. and as I have said from day one.. they aren't going anywhere no matter who likes them or doesnt. Those who insist on seeing the doom and gloom where there is none need to look at today and stop looking at this issue from the prism of the past.

Look above, nothing has changed - you still participate in illegal exploit of the IL2 code against its creator.

If there`s anyone that is a legitimate voice is the person that posseses the intellectual right s to it - that person is still Oleg Maddox. I have not follwed IL2 since a while so maybe the property got sold. Fill me in if the buyer said it is ok to mod IL2. I`ll turn 180 degrees.
Oleg Maddox said it`s ruining the sim and online play - and the clear rules state his words, not yours, state the facts.

You can compare this to stealing a 1000$ every month from a bank account belonging to a milionaire. Jeeez! Doesn`t make him any difference if we steal 1000$ every month from him, does it?
Then why does the carnal law all over the world prosecutes this kind of practice?

that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.

and people had issues with patches... official patches.. that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.

Somehow...yes, they are bad people in a sense. In sense of stealing from the owner of the IL2 code. It is obvious that the vast majority of you people have gone the easy way of consuming the game to your needs independetly from the above. Many of you actually know that you`re doing a bad thing, though the numbers that stand behind you make you feel somewhat less responsible or even innocent o participating in it. People like me seem to ruin your day, because I keep reminding you that you`re undoubtedly an asshole. The carnal law names the doings as a crime, which tends to agree with the brightest minds of this world that the intellectual property needs a very strict protection. I wouldn`t exactly compare you to a guy who kills a human being, but the law says exactly what you`re doing when applying the mods.

The thing that is shocking to me, is that the urge to consume the hell outta anything, this game too, makes you people forget about the meaning of your doings and the consequences altoghether.

If there`s so many of you, an your opinions ensist on making the cracking of the game legal, good, beneficial to 1C, why don`t you just convince them?
Oh, they STILL think it`s wrong? They must be idiots to the same extent that I, and few other IL2 supporters are.

If that is what you DID mean then I totally disagree with you and I say that the fact that 12+ months after the initial "crime" there are NOT widespread FM-DM-Wep mods, hack kiddies have NOT taken over the sim, UFOs have not invaded HyperLobby , in all this the community is generally policing itself.

Funny how you keep sticking to the less significant factor of the case. I`m telling you keep actively supporting illegal practice, you say it is totally ok because it doesn`t hurt IL2 online play.
Well, the difference between you and me is that you keep voicing an opinion whereas I`m saying what is totally objective, because it is sanctioned by law.

Now all this may go to rot in a year or two... if that is to be the case that was the fact the moment the sim was hacked and you and others like you can shortchange yourself by not flying... or whatever you want to do. Me? I am going to continue to enjoy this sim that I have invested thousands in flying over the past 7 years... and enjoy the h@ll out of it while I can.

You particulary disgust me, as you often told how you support IL2 Sturmovik. And probably you still think so. Go ahead and enjoy it while you can, just do me a favor and refrain from telling others that what you`re participating in is any good.

[Bandit Bill]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

So ... all the mods are cheats right?

Y'see the thing that you don't get is that while there may be cheat mods out there.. I can't deny that.. I haven't seen any but I cant deny that they exist... but here you say
that because a person is using mods they can't possibly know about cheats.. what.. you think it is like some kind of virus or something...

MODS DO NOT EQUAL CHEATS. JUST BECAUSE A PERSON USES MODS DOES NOT MEAN THAT HE/SHE CONDONES OR PRACTICES CHEATING.

Just because a person uses mods does not mean that their version of the sim is hot and ready to become a cheat factory. That is not how the mods work. The majority of those mods have nothing to do with FMs or DMs at all....



Well maybe you just hang out with the wrong class of people.. All the ones I hang out with on either side if the mods issue wouldn't think a victory gained by a cheat was worth the time it took to achieve.

I do think that if a server host wants a mod free server he is entitled to that regardless to the mod. I have come to see these mods however as more functionality. While as I asid I am sure there are FDW mods.. most of them just add functionality.

Bearcat:

Seriously, give it up man.

The only thing i see between that now locked post from 1 year back, and this one, is that the date has changed.

The Purists have made their choice, and despite the 'Puritan' holier than thou attitude that they hold in doing so publicly, it is their choice to do so after all.

We are all a year down the road. I've only just rejoined the fold of IL2 use after an extended period of illness, and mods or not, i'm grateful to be doing so. The Mods have 'come a long way, baby' in a short 8 months. They simply build upon the foundation of what is Oleg's vision and talent, and the IL2 series. The mods that i've used to date compliment Oleg's work - rather than deface it.

As far as the CFS series supposedly dying a death caused by cheating, they didn't. In relative terms, they just plain sucked. period. They were in my experience, generally berift of 'soul'.. they were a generic flight simulator, unlike the IL2's more focused approach to it. The CFS series was a design by committee exercise.. too many chefs in the cook-house, not enough burger flipping going on.. CFS* showed that in my opinion. This is why IL2 continues to enjoy success - the modders are expanding on the 'soul' that exists in IL2, mods or not.

In the 6 pages in to this thread that i've read, i still see the vitriole from the purists that existed in that same locked thread from a year ago. What i see largely absent is any arguments or commentary from the modder viewpoint in this thread. The modders have moved on, perhaps the purists should too. In any case, vitriole is pointless.

As to where i stand, it's pretty clear - i'm a mod user, and i'll make no apologies for that.

I'm also no cheat, and will stand for no cheating. I'm 40, not 4.

[flyingbullseye]

You know I may not have been here or at the UBI forums as long as many of the veterns have but here's my take.

I use the mods, fly completely offline and only a month ago finally bought/upgraded to 1946 from 4.04m. Had the mods not existed I never would have bought another copy for I wouldn't have had any reason to. What would I gain, stupid aircraft that never left the restraunt napkin and maybe a new map? Big deal. I could live without that. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has finally upgraded this sim to 1946 now. In order to use them I HAD to buy a copy, this in turn adds another sale to the total that in turn helps Oleg and team, now one more of many.

Attitude aside from both communities (mod site and this one) as mentioned many are very good. The sound mod itself has added a little more immursion as does the new cloud effects, many needed left out maps and a number of much needed a/c and cockpit repaints. ala 109E. What I don't see going on there as opposed to the MS CFS sims is retarded mods. I don't see corsairs with flak for guns, independence day alien ships jacked FM/DM and the like but new a/c, effects ect that are historical. All that aside look at CFS2,3 and some of the good addons released. If they didn't have mod tools, regardless whether given by the devs or not, good or bad realistic/historically both would have died long ago ESPECIALLY CFS 3.

I don't see and am not aware of any pay for addons, or that the code is released to the public via internet or any of the like. Had any of that gone on I'd be completely against it. As it stands you need to pay Oleg for the sim in order to get the free mods. Even if Oleg released mod tools there is a good chance that this argument would still be going on.

My 0.02

Flyingbullseye

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by carguy_

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=2300

This thread shows the situation. I stress, the mod supporters were never able to deny valid vanilla supporters` arguments.

I got over it some time ago as I quit IL2 in 2007. The thing worthy of remembering is what kind of people former IL2 community had all along. Sad.

That thread shows a lot more than I think you realize. I think everyone here should take the time to read that thread. All 100+ pages of it and compare it to the reality 12+ months later.. Very interesting stuff. That 113 page thread thread went from 11/21/07 to 1/10/08 and pretty much covered just about every argument pro and con on the mods.

Carguy the " mod supporters", at least the ones here, don't have to deny jack. The history speaks for itself. The work speaks for itself. Look at that thread. Really read the whole thing, including many of your posts, and compare it with the facts of today.. Oh.. that's right.. you cant do that... you quit IL2 when that thread was being made most likely.. because it was the end of the world right? So basically anything you have to say on the subject is coming from misinformation and speculation on what happened in other sims way back when.. Y'know, it's interesting. 95% of the stuff in there as far as worries and prophecies of doom for online flying in IL2 from several people, YOU included, have not even come to pass. Not even close. Right now there are over 600 folks on HL.. on a Tuesday @1915 EST. So much for the death of online play...


I said it then.. I'll say it now... the sim is hacked. Get over it.

If you cant do that then do like Carguy did and leave... but STFU about it because it is a moot point.

Seriously.....

Today there is a history to go along with it. Unlike back when that thread was created, posted in and locked... it is now a year later... and the work speaks for itself. The integrity of this community speaks for itself. We are not a community of cheaters and the modders are not "pimply faced teenagers".

I waited almost a year (9 months from when this all started) before I tried any of the mods. It was D-Day of 08 that I finally tried them. I am glad I waited... they were worth the wait.

The old arguments need to be revised. Like them or not, there is no denying that the mods have not hurt the sim. They have not ruined online flying. The expected FM & DM mods have not come en masse.... Most of the mods are functional improvements and immersion boosters.. and as I have said from day one.. they aren't going anywhere no matter who likes them or doesnt. Those who insist on seeing the doom and gloom where there is none need to look at today and stop looking at this issue from the prism of the past.

Carguy you talk about the "kind of people former IL2 community had all along" as if the current community were somehow deviant or had less character. That is BS man..[i] now if you didn't mean it that way and I just took it wrong then I apologize now... but somehow I think that you seem to be insinuating that because many in this community have chosen to use the mods that have been out for over a year now, and actually like some of them with little if any ill effects, at the very least nothing that a reinstall cant fix... and people had issues with patches... official patches.. that they are somehow bad people or have tarnished the community.

If that is what you DID mean then I totally disagree with you and I say that the fact that 12+ months after the initial "crime" there are NOT widespread FM-DM-Wep mods, hack kiddies have NOT taken over the sim, UFOs have not invaded HyperLobby , in all this the community is generally policing itself. There are now maps for Slovenia, The Med... with Italy Africa & Greece, The Phillipines, Burma, The English Channel.. and more... there are flyable bombers with cockpits, IL2 1946 has probably sold more because of these mods, although I dont have the figures, from what I understand the mods don't work on the downloaded version.

Now all this may go to rot in a year or two... if that is to be the case that was the fact the moment the sim was hacked and you and others like you can shortchange yourself by not flying... or whatever you want to do. Me? I am going to continue to enjoy this sim that I have invested thousands in flying over the past 7 years... and enjoy the h@ll out of it while I can.