The so called "no-loss" concept (whole game) is wrong and stupid.

[Bhruic]

Originally Posted by tiberiu

I was discussing the quality of the product, not it's selling potential. I never suggested that they would make more money if they made the changes to make the game harder so his point is moot. I expressed my opinion that the game is way too easy and my hopes that this might change. I am well aware that some people may find it hard to play even on Normal, or Easy. They are on top of the gauss curve.

Well, what you were discussing isn't relevant, I was refering to what you were quoting. And what you were quoting was someone talking about who the developers should focus on pleasing, and that's the majority. Which is correct, they want to sell more copies.

I don't understand the fanaticism of these hypocrites. They say that they want to play as they like, but don't respect my right to try to do the same.
If they want an easy game where they kill 1000 bears with 1 royal snake then whatever, they should do that and praise the companies for doing games like that. I, on the other hand, don't enjoy that, and I use my right of expression to criticize the game for being easy, and I offer solid unrefutable arguments to my cause.

This thread has slowly degenerated into a gang-bang of ad hominems on my person and instead of somebody arguing calmly and politely, simply do straw men and other sophistry.

Well, your position makes no sense, so it's not surprising there's little rational discussion. Basically, you're saying that people should be allowed to play however they want, as long as there's no option to allow people to play in a way that's different than how you want. Sheer silliness.

You'd have done much better by simply creating a thread saying you think the game is too easy. That's at least a somewhat supportable argument. When you start off by insulting those who enjoy going for a no-loss game, there's really not much farther down to go.

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by Bhruic

Well, your position makes no sense

Ipse dixit?

You don't even comprehend what my position is, mate. You just insult me like all the others.

Basically, you're saying that people should be allowed to play however they want, as long as there's no option to allow people to play in a way that's different than how you want. Sheer silliness.

Except that I'm not saying such a thing. What you are doing is being evil or being very stupid. I hope it's the former.

That's at least a somewhat supportable argument. When you start off by insulting those who enjoy going for a no-loss game, there's really not much farther down to go.

I'm not insulting anybody. I am the one who is insulted. I never said that is wrong to try to do no-loss,. quite the contrary. But you must learn to read and to stop being an asshole. Good bye I expect I'm going to be banned now for telling it like it is.

[Fatt_Shade]

@tiberiu You called Elvin `but son`, and Youpiya `son` after his comment that he is married and have child. So my question is : How OLD are you ???
On tread title - you started by insulting no loss way of playing but that isnt what most ppl do, it`s simply most commented treads on this forum because in those play`s many interesting things get discovered and therefore commented and discussed after.

Yea, I'm smart and pro at games. It's only normal that I send in my assessment. It's guys like me that makes games evolve. You suck if you think that what you are doing when you kill 1000 bears with 1 royal snake is strategy.
How about shut up if you don't have anything relevant to say?

You are pro in games? Did you win any tournament, or earn money as way of living from gaming ? NO. Professional is calling some who makes living working at certain area (and here i dont count Chinese players in wow who grind gold, to sell after on E-bay). You might be experienced gamer at most.
Guy`s like you makes game evolve? No guy`s that take some problem and solve it then publish their results are one`s that make games evolve. In all your bitching here you never gave some idea how to make no loss actually impossible.
You mentioned again killing 1000 bears with 1 snake, is that subject painful for you, did you fail to acomplishe that in previous KB games and it bugs you still? Who ever said that using 1 unit to kill whole enemy army is no loss strategy? Defeating enemy and keeping your units safe, and resurrected before battle ends is goal , not losing 2 hours/battle.
If in game exists resurrection spell, and revive ability on unit why wouldnt players use them for their benefit ??? And in other games that have checkpoints, is that stupid and cheating also ? How about automatic respawn after death in FPS games ...
I started game and got crap choice of units, so i use any means to keep those that are actually useful alive, until i can restock and advance a bit in hero skills/spells/rage. therefore i`m stupid by your opinion.

This thread has slowly degenerated into a gang-bang of ad hominems on my person and instead of somebody arguing calmly and politely, simply do straw men and other sophistry.

I havent insulted you in any way in my comments on this tread like you did to anyone replying here, but would still like to read your thoughts on my post. So pls give some viable way to fix this mistake of no loss problem in KB games.

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by Fatt_Shade

On tread title - you started by insulting no loss way of playing

I never did that.

You are pro in games? Did you win any tournament, or earn money as way of living from gaming ? NO.

Yes in fact. I earn money from being a proffesional chessplayer. International Chess Federation (FIDE)can confirm.

you never gave some idea how to make no loss actually impossible.

Rework/remove overpowered spells, abilities and units, lessen player advantages over enemy armies (pet dragon, spells, skills etc have a far to great impact)

You mentioned again killing 1000 bears with 1 snake, is that subject painful for you, did you fail to acomplishe that in previous KB games and it bugs you still? Who ever said that using 1 unit to kill whole enemy army is no loss strategy? Defeating enemy and keeping your units safe, and resurrected before battle ends is goal , not losing 2 hours/battle.

Nope. Nice adhominems though.

If in game exists resurrection spell, and revive ability on unit why wouldnt players use them for their benefit ???

Of course they should. I say it in my first post. Get your glasses or learn to read.

therefore i`m stupid by your opinion.

You said it, no me

I havent insulted you in any way in my comments on this tread like you did to anyone replying here, but would still like to read your thoughts on my post. So pls give some viable way to fix this mistake of no loss problem in KB games.

Did that already. But you read what you like and are blind to the rest.

[Fatt_Shade]

I never did that.

In tread title and first post you said no loss is stupid, and all who use it are retarded.

Yes in fact. I earn money from being a professional chess player.

So you are professional chess player, not gamer. Join some gaming tournament and see difference between chess game, and expl Starcraft2 match. Gaming and chess playing are very different activities.

Rework/remove overpowered spells, abilities and units, lessen player advantages over enemy armies (pet dragon, spells, skills etc have a far to great impact)

Thank you on so specific answer, and great detail in explaining your ideas. So eloquent and precise.
On lessening player advantage toward enemy units check HoMM3babies mod for Legend and see how there enemy heroes have same or better bonuses as player (like sills bonuses, or equip items). There is no penalty to player, but benefit to AI and computer controlled units, which is great comparing to current situation in WotN.

Just one problem i found in Red sands mod that i didnt like was bonus hp boost when lvling units, it was set to give fixed amount and in game were found 10K+ units stacks of fairies/thorns or any other 1st lvl units with up to 40 hp each = 300-400% bonus, and on other hand 5th lvl units going from 800 to 830 not even 5% boost. So i checked files and fixed so it gives % hp bonus on lvlup (so every unit got same % of hp bonus) and posted my idea on that tread, hopefully some1 might like it and take for his own game. That is specific idea in solving problem about game balance.
Lets see yours ?

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by BB Shockwave

The problem is, for no-loss, at least in AP (WotN will give us more options, like Soothsayers and Warrior Maidens, not to mention that Gift is back...) forced you to ALWAYS use some resurrecting unit... like Paladins, or Inquisitors, or Rune Mages. Problem is, Inquisitors are just a useless unit unless you are fighting undead, and using Paladins in EVERY gameplay gets tedious. Same goes for the droid build. Yes, I've done it once, but I have no desire to do it again.

So I can understand why the new guy says "it's stupid", I do not agree with the way HOW he said that or how he trolled others who disagreed.

It wasn't really necessary to use a ress unit, you could also use spells. The all dragon army worked pretty well, and target + timeback was also very strong. I think the most boring run I did was one where I used the repair droids to the extreme... so not fun.

There isn't any pressure to do no loss in the game. Rather it's fun to see how extreme you can be. And each fight becomes an even more complex puzzle to figure out. One of my favorites was the dragon den on Montero in AP. You could do the fight with like 2 or 3 red and green dragons (killing a few dozen other dragons). Figuring out the right combinations of spells and gear to make impossibly difficult fights, possible, is a huge part of the fun for me.

This is why truly overpowered units (rune mages) and lack of options decreases my enjoyment of the game.

[redsox0717]

You clearly did insult the play style and the people doing it in the first post. You come across as very childish by hating the way others play even though it doesn't affect you in any way.

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by redsox0717

You clearly did insult the play style and the people doing it in the first post. You come across as very childish by hating the way others play even though it doesn't affect you in any way.

Nope. I said it is normal to try to lose no units. I'm sorry for your reading disability.

[Fatt_Shade]

@tiberiu

Nope. I said it is normal to try to lose no units. I'm sorry for your reading disability.

This is same as if I said all players who think no loss is waste of time are stupid and retarded. Did i insult you personally? No, i just said that your way of thinking is stupid and retarded. So yea you did insult all players who go no loss imp game, stop denying it.

Did that already. But you read what you like and are blind to the rest

As for my reading disability and blindness, pls quote post where you gave 1 relevant way of stopping this way of playing. If you referre to this

Possible fixes would be to completely remove from the game the spells and abilities that allow such absurdities, and to better balance the creatures.

, then you`re not fixing problem but butchering game.
For stopping players from taking 50+ turns in some battle to keep army alive is simple solution, it`s not mine idea but very effective (from HoMM3babies mod), so enlighten us with your solution.

And pls tel me when did I lie in this tread as you indicated in PM.

[BB Shockwave]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

It wasn't really necessary to use a ress unit, you could also use spells. The all dragon army worked pretty well, and target + timeback was also very strong. I think the most boring run I did was one where I used the repair droids to the extreme... so not fun.

There isn't any pressure to do no loss in the game. Rather it's fun to see how extreme you can be. And each fight becomes an even more complex puzzle to figure out. One of my favorites was the dragon den on Montero in AP. You could do the fight with like 2 or 3 red and green dragons (killing a few dozen other dragons). Figuring out the right combinations of spells and gear to make impossibly difficult fights, possible, is a huge part of the fun for me.

This is why truly overpowered units (rune mages) and lack of options decreases my enjoyment of the game.

I actually disliked Rune Mages not because they are overpowered- they aren't that much in AP/CW - but because it is an inherently silly concept to power a unit with runes - which are very hard to come by and are needed for the development of your heroes. Thankfully a patch addressed this and reduced the number of runes needed to boost them.

As for spells like Time Back and Resurrection, they are less of an option for a Warrior or Paladin, due to less intellect and mana. I mean - they worked fine for me on Normal, as I could be more lenient when investing runes and equipping items - but on Impossible this would be hard to do. For a Mage, I agree it is an option... I use it myself.

Originally Posted by tiberiu

Somebody wrote on this forum that developers of wotn did wrong to make it impossible or nearly impossible to do no-loss on impossible difficulty. I'll explain why the whole concept of a no-loss game is retarded and should be discarded quickly.

Yeah, you are SOOOO not insulting anyone there... Seriously, if you are as old as you say you are (for the record, I am 34) and have been around the internet, you should have heard about a little thing called "Netiquette". Basically, if you post anything in such an insulting manner - even if what you say is right, and you meant well - you will be labelled as a troll, because this is exactly what trolls do - creating topics with the intent of drawing people into prolonged, often personal arguments that actually are far-far removed from the original topic. And frankly, your later comments indicate just that - you are going out of your way to simply say "No, I didn't!" to anyone who practically quotes what you said. This looking more and more like the famous "Argument" from Monty Python...

Basically, if one is able to finish a game about huge fights and combats, many labeled as "invincible" and he is able to win without losing anything, this means that the game is unbalanced and poorly designed. Wars have casualties and it's only logical that a fight called "impossible" or "invincible" should in fact be factually impossible to do, otherwise it makes no sense to even call it that way. To be able to win "impossible" fights with no loss is even more stupid.

The game is hardly unbalanced because someone is able to keep the enemy at bay using debuffs and then reviving his lost units while finding clever ways to regenerate mana and rage (Emerald Green Dragons, Fountain of Magic, etc...) Usually at the point you do this, the AI is limited to one-two disabled or slowed troop, out of mana to cast spells, and there is no way it can do anything to stop the player from doing this. But up until this point, the AI fights and works as intended.

You think HOMMIII was unbalanced, too? I remember playing no-loss campaigns myself back in the nineties - using Blind, Slow, or Resurrect. Heck, one campaign in Armageddon's Blade pits you against a throng of Nagas that you can only defeat by cleverly manipulating them with spells like Blind, Slow or Berserk so that they never reach your units. The battle is practically designed this way. It is not a loophole, or not unbalancing.

If you want to see unbalancing, play Age of Wonders II. Even after patches and fan patches, some races are simply waaaay more powerful then others.