Latest Patch HURRICANES NOT STARTING AGAIN???

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Again some people miss the whole point of releasing a Beta patch for Testing. If the development had the resources and every computer setup known to man they wouldn't release a BETA patch for the community to test. The devs must roll their eyes is disbelief when someone jumps up and down yelling.... I FOUND A BUG AND I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW STUPID THE DEVS ARE. But then again they already understand the negative side of involving the community when some will never understand the development process. I'm sure the good has outweighed the bad and they will continue to use our resources to help build the series.

Hi Chivas,
Beta patches are to test and correct issues - not to re-introduce already fixed issues. If you are implying that I do not understand the development process, let me clarify for you. I've been in senior IT management for many years at the corporate level, including the development of very large business programs from scratch. I know very well the issues involved with the technical side, the business side and managing customer as well as executive expectations. You should witness some of the inside SHOUTING that happens when deliverables are not met that impact the organizations bottom line.

As a client, I don't really care what issues the techs are having, nor is the client expected to. What I and clients expect is a deliverable on time and on or under budget. To that end, I've managed processes and lead teams establishing and following guidelines to measure, check and adjust issues to ensure that the deliverable is met. Ic apparently do not have these procedures in place as evidenced by the quality of their releases of beta patches wherein previously resolved show stopper issues are re-released.

Please don't expand my post to one of omg as you put it, or imply that I stated that , "I FOUND A BUG AND I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW STUPID THE DEVS ARE". because that was not stated not was it implied. What was indicated in caps was a very specific portion of a title and in my opinion justified. Note: the text inside was in upper and lower case. CAPS in a heading do not necessarily indicate shouting. It is an indication to draw attention. A complete posting in CAPS is shouting! Big difference. So to that end you have mis-interpreted or assumed an incorrect tone in the original post.

I also believe that open beta testing is not the way to go. Closed groups have been shown to be more efficient at producing timely and effective results. Having limited resources is not an excuse for a flawed deliverable. If the checks and balances are in place, it would mitigate the client reaction you are now seeing.

The good does outway the bad. But the bad is very bad. As for the Devs utilizing our resources as beta testers . . . . . there are a lot of issues put forth by the "testers" with many questioning if the Devs really look at them. I like the term "using" because that is exactly what is taking place. We are being used!

I sincerely hope for the success of this series. I do hope that they get the funding to proceed. I look forward to participating in online events with large groups. But my patience has run out! 1C is the team that has cried "Wolf" far too many times and made too many promises too many times for me to meekly accept what is being dished out.

I miss OLEG!

Originally Posted by Catseye

Hi Chivas,
Beta patches are to test and correct issues - not to re-introduce already fixed issues. If you are implying that I do not understand the development process, let me clarify for you. I've been in senior IT management for many years at the corporate level, including the development of very large business programs from scratch. I know very well the issues involved with the technical side, the business side and managing customer as well as executive expectations. You should witness some of the inside SHOUTING that happens when deliverables are not met that impact the organizations bottom line.

As a client, I don't really care what issues the techs are having, nor is the client expected to. What I and clients expect is a deliverable on time and on or under budget. To that end, I've managed processes and lead teams establishing and following guidelines to measure, check and adjust issues to ensure that the deliverable is met. Ic apparently do not have these procedures in place as evidenced by the quality of their releases of beta patches wherein previously resolved show stopper issues are re-released.

Please don't expand my post to one of omg as you put it, or imply that I stated that , "I FOUND A BUG AND I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW STUPID THE DEVS ARE". because that was not stated not was it implied. What was indicated in caps was a very specific portion of a title and in my opinion justified. Note: the text inside was in upper and lower case. CAPS in a heading do not necessarily indicate shouting. It is an indication to draw attention. A complete posting in CAPS is shouting! Big difference. So to that end you have mis-interpreted or assumed an incorrect tone in the original post.

I also believe that open beta testing is not the way to go. Closed groups have been shown to be more efficient at producing timely and effective results. Having limited resources is not an excuse for a flawed deliverable. If the checks and balances are in place, it would mitigate the client reaction you are now seeing.

The good does outway the bad. But the bad is very bad. As for the Devs utilizing our resources as beta testers . . . . . there are a lot of issues put forth by the "testers" with many questioning if the Devs really look at them. I like the term "using" because that is exactly what is taking place. We are being used!

I sincerely hope for the success of this series. I do hope that they get the funding to proceed. I look forward to participating in online events with large groups. But my patience has run out! 1C is the team that has cried "Wolf" far too many times and made too many promises too many times for me to meekly accept what is being dished out.

I miss OLEG!

Good post Cat, unfortunatley they cannot see the wood for the trees that they can fly through.

[beepee]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Good post Cat, unfortunatley they cannot see the wood for the trees that they can fly through.

+1

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Catseye

Hi Chivas,
Beta patches are to test and correct issues - not to re-introduce already fixed issues. If you are implying that I do not understand the development process, let me clarify for you. I've been in senior IT management for many years at the corporate level, including the development of very large business programs from scratch. I know very well the issues involved with the technical side, the business side and managing customer as well as executive expectations. You should witness some of the inside SHOUTING that happens when deliverables are not met that impact the organizations bottom line.

As a client, I don't really care what issues the techs are having, nor is the client expected to. What I and clients expect is a deliverable on time and on or under budget. To that end, I've managed processes and lead teams establishing and following guidelines to measure, check and adjust issues to ensure that the deliverable is met. Ic apparently do not have these procedures in place as evidenced by the quality of their releases of beta patches wherein previously resolved show stopper issues are re-released.

Please don't expand my post to one of omg as you put it, or imply that I stated that , "I FOUND A BUG AND I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW STUPID THE DEVS ARE". because that was not stated not was it implied. What was indicated in caps was a very specific portion of a title and in my opinion justified. Note: the text inside was in upper and lower case. CAPS in a heading do not necessarily indicate shouting. It is an indication to draw attention. A complete posting in CAPS is shouting! Big difference. So to that end you have mis-interpreted or assumed an incorrect tone in the original post.

I also believe that open beta testing is not the way to go. Closed groups have been shown to be more efficient at producing timely and effective results. Having limited resources is not an excuse for a flawed deliverable. If the checks and balances are in place, it would mitigate the client reaction you are now seeing.

The good does outway the bad. But the bad is very bad. As for the Devs utilizing our resources as beta testers . . . . . there are a lot of issues put forth by the "testers" with many questioning if the Devs really look at them. I like the term "using" because that is exactly what is taking place. We are being used!

I sincerely hope for the success of this series. I do hope that they get the funding to proceed. I look forward to participating in online events with large groups. But my patience has run out! 1C is the team that has cried "Wolf" far too many times and made too many promises too many times for me to meekly accept what is being dished out.

I miss OLEG!

If you understood the beta process you would realize that past issues can come back when the devs are constantly rewriting and adding code. Again its the whole point of releasing another beta test patch, and not the final patch.

I like Oleg as much as the next guy, and also wish he hadn't left, but highly doubt the project would be much further along. Oleg would let the community know what the development was trying to achieve far more than Luthier, with the caveat that this is a WIP and features would be added when system resources allowed during the series. People still don't seem to understand that, proven by all the "you promised" posts. Luthier has learned its better to say very little. Yes the development sold the sim without mentioning its still a beta, but that doesn't change the fact that its still a "Beta".

Originally Posted by Chivas

If you understood the beta process you would realize that past issues can come back when the devs are constantly rewriting and adding code. Again its the whole point of releasing another beta test patch, and not the final patch.

I like Oleg as much as the next guy, and also wish he hadn't left, but highly doubt the project would be much further along. Oleg would let the community know what the development was trying to achieve far more than Luthier, with the caveat that this is a WIP and features would be added when system resources allowed during the series. People still don't seem to understand that, proven by all the "you promised" posts. Luthier has learned its better to say very little. Yes the development sold the sim without mentioning its still a beta, but that doesn't change the fact that its still a "Beta".

Then surley if this is the case you would expect all be the most foolish to test that the same old problems haven't been reintroduced before releasing the patch, otherwise we just go round and round in circles like we have been doing for the last 19 months, I'm sorry Chivas but on this I completely disagree with you.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

Then surley if this is the case you would expect all be the most foolish to test that the same old problems haven't been reintroduced before releasing the patch, otherwise we just go round and round in circles like we have been doing for the last 19 months, I'm sorry Chivas but on this I completely disagree with you.

Its your right to disagree, but that doesn't make you right. I don't know why people can't understand the complexity of the task. If the game was "finished" and it was just a matter of fixing bugs it would be an easier task, BUT they are not just fixing bugs, they are also optimizing code, and adding code to further refine features. ANY code change whether its to optimize, fix bugs, or finish features, can cause bugs in related and unrelated ways. The developers obviously sent out another beta patch to the community, not an RC to Steam, to help test and find bugs, why people are incredulous when they do find them is beyond me. Its frankly quite disconcerting, you gotta hope they are just trolling.

[planespotter]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Its your right to disagree, but that doesn't make you right. I don't know why people can't understand the complexity of the task. If the game was "finished" and it was just a matter of fixing bugs it would be an easier task, BUT they are not just fixing bugs, they are also optimizing code, and adding code to further refine features. ANY code change whether its to optimize, fix bugs, or finish features, can cause bugs in related and unrelated ways. The developers obviously sent out another beta patch to the community, not an RC to Steam, to help test and find bugs, why people are incredulous when they do find them is beyond me. Its frankly quite disconcerting, you gotta hope they are just trolling.

This debate just silly. You are all fleas on the back ofccdog debating why the dog took a dump.

The fact: the dog took a dump.

The reality: if this patch was candidate for release, it is a stinky dump.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Oleg would let the community know what the development was trying to achieve far more than Luthier, with the caveat that this is a WIP and features would be added when system resources allowed during the series. People still don't seem to understand that, proven by all the "you promised" posts. Luthier has learned its better to say very little.

Ding..
Ding..
Ding..

And the ironic part of that is most of those who say "you promised"

Are the same ones that wonder why Luthier does not post here more often!

[Hood]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Ding..
Ding..
Ding..

And the ironic part of that is most of those who say "you promised"

Are the same ones that wonder why Luthier does not post here more often!

They don't wonder, they know why. It's hard to regain trust and credibility once it's gone.

[Catseye]

Originally Posted by Chivas

If you understood the beta process you would realize that past issues can come back when the devs are constantly rewriting and adding code. Again its the whole point of releasing another beta test patch, and not the final patch.
a".

Geeze Chivas,
"If you understood the beta process . . . . . "
I really think that you have a reading comprehension issue . . . . or a communication problem wherin you are not able to prepare a sentence or comment without insulting the intelligence of the other posters. You assume so many things about others without facts.

You just don't get it! The beta process is to eliminate problems. If problems are re-introduced, they are caught as a part of the process of evaluation of the changes made before giving it to the testers. You check your work!! It's not up to the testers to check the programmers work!

The startup issue is not just a minimal issue. It is a game-breaker issue! Who the heck was asleep at the wheel on this one?

If you are going to play around with the mixture settings, one would think that someone went through the process of checking to see if the aircraft would start or even fly and that the mixture settings really worked in action.

I'm putting this one to bed. The issues speak for themselves.