Spit/109 sea level speed comparisons in 1.08 beta patch

[pstyle]

Allow me to ask again, what I'm reading in that odd sentance is;
The spitfire has an advantage, unless it tries to use it.

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by pstyle

Allow me to ask again, what I'm reading in that odd sentance is;
The spitfire has an advantage, unless it tries to use it.

it roughly translates in Crumpp parlance to:

The Spitfire has an advantage until it is matched against anything German and I produce the graph to prove it'

takes a little time to learn Crumpp but it becomes reasonably predictable.

[JtD]

Originally Posted by pstyle

The spitfire has an advantage, unless it tries to use it.

Great summary. I guess that's the way he put it, but it boils down to the statement that the faster plane generally holds the advantage. This remains true in turnfights. The 109 has the choice to maintain the higher airspeed at a lower corner velocity, the Spitfire has the choice to maintain a higher corner velocity at a lower airspeed, so the 109 can maintain the initiative.

It should be noted that on Crumpps chart the 109 has a level speed advantage of ~18 knots, however representative that is for a BoB scenario.

[Crumpp]

Feel free to calculate it yourselves!!

which is no news and pretty obvious, but it also has nothing to do with sustained turn times comparsions.

The performance is the sustained envelope. It is just over the entire envelope both aircraft can sustain instead of just choosing one single point.


So it is everything to do with sustained turn time comparisions as it IS A SUSTAINED TURN TIME COMPARISION under the same condition of flight. At the same altitude and airspeed, that is how the relative performance will play out.


You do understand the Spitfire and BF-109 do not achieve their best turn performance under the same conditions of flight?

[Crumpp]

It should be noted that on Crumpps chart the 109 has a level speed advantage of ~18 knots, however representative that is for a BoB scenario.

It was manufacturer's data for each type.

There is a wide range of data available on both types. Choose what you want.....

[Crumpp]

The Spitfire has an advantage until it is matched against anything German and I produce the graph to prove it'

Do the math...it does not lie.

[Crumpp]

Spitfire data used

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/n3171.html

Bf-109E3 data used:

http://kurfurst.org/Tactical_trials/...ls/Morgan.html

[Glider]

An obvious statement but the Spit trials you quote above seems to be without the extra boost that 100 octane allows.

A second observation, can someone explain how the Me109 is supposed to have a better manoverability at higher speeds than the SPitfire when all the tests point out how difficult the 109 is to manoever at high speeds due to the way the controls stiffen up at high speed compared to the Spitfire?

Last I don't see how the chart on posting 129 page 13 proves what it says it proves. I would appreciate it if it could be explained to me in simple terms or explain the maths behind the criteria thanks

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

You do understand the Spitfire and BF-109 do not achieve their best turn performance under the same conditions of flight?

Yes that's what I was saying before. But when it comes to sustained turn that does not really matter.

Do you know what would happen if you entered a pure turn and burn (TnB) fight against a Spitfire (you in a 109)?