Updated RAF FMs in 1.07.18301

[David198502]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

CEM is way too forgiving and simple in this game at this point, FM/DM so porked that really hard to tell if it resembles a RC plane or what? And this goes for both sides, I repeat BOTH SIDES so there will be no commotion that I am biased to either side.

For me the biggest gripe are the oversensitive rudder and elevator trim inputs. I've tried to adjust it in the Controls but no..move the pedals 2-3mm and your plane wiggles like crazy making it hard to keep ball centered on 109 for example. Spitfire and Hurricane has trim so it easens the task a bit for these guys. Elevator trim is the same, making precise adjustments is very hard as merely touching the trim makes plane bop up or down. There is a RANGE of movement for a reason. And just check the Controls -> Axes how LAGGY the input indicators are, like it polls the inputs every 3 seconds or what? Compare to original IL-2 where you could instantly see the effect.

Also controls feel a lot twitchier online than offline. Can be the lag or whatever but very annoying at times when you try to execute precise maneuvers like aiming during a bomb dive or dogfighting.

In short the FM feels too much like the original IL-2 one with minor differences. For one I do not understand making Bf109 twitchy as it was not unless one the VERY edge of it's envelope where one should not be anyway. Where the Hurricane was said to be a stable work horse, but not so much here. Spitfire the full bred fighter but not without vices and punished you if could not tame her proper.

I think Chernarus calls again

+1

especially with this beta patch, the elevator and aileron controls are really a mess....ive tried today the steam version again, to see the difference, and there is a big one....this beta patch is a big, really big step backwards regarding the elevator and aileron sensitivty in the 109...its hardly possible to aim accurately now.its a shame and damn its annoying...the rudder is maybe a bit better, but just like you said, its still hard to keep the ball centered in straight and level flight, with the slightest rudder input resulting in big reaction of the plane...

[Redroach]

Is that true for all airspeeds? At least the elevator controls SHOULD get heavier when going very fast.

[David198502]

thats the strange thing,....its pretty much the same when flying really fast

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by David198502

+1
with the slightest rudder input resulting in big reaction of the plane...

I noticed the same with Spitfire last night.
A tiny touch of my z-axis threw the rudder out and I got the wind/buffet sound effect. I can't confirm this, but I am of the opinion that this is much more marked than previously.

I have a Joystick with the rudder on the Z-axis. Obviously this makes turning difficult now because I almost always accidentally shift the Z-axis slightly when turning.

I tried increasing the dead-zone on my joystick Z-axis to 10% at both the 0 had 100 marks but his had no effect. A tiny input still results in a very unsubtle movement of the control surface.

I'm not sure if people playing with rudder pedals have noticed any change in sensitivity.. it wouldn't matter so much if I could get the dead zone to work, then my accidental inputs would not result in a control surface change.

[David198502]

well, i play with rudder pedals...
though for me, although i notice a difference in rudder behaviour as well, its not my main concern...to be honest, i think the rudder of the 109 had a okish behaviour before both betas, the first beta messed the rudder up, and now its better again(though still too sensitive)...

my main concern(note im a 109 guy) is the elevator and aileron control behaviour with this patch...it just sucks

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Very good post Ernst. I say Amen to all that.

yeah I tried to write some paltry thing of my own, but ernst pretty much summed it up. I well flown spit Boosting Is a very very hard plane to fight. It was said that a well flown spit could dance around the sky, and that is probably true, the Issue to me is though...that the games spit is too easy to fly, It rolls far too well and has ungodly E retention. you really can't stall it at full power unless you do something drastic...and the Elevator/Ailerons exhibit perfect harmony, unlike real life where the elevator should be more sensitive.

I think If we actually make the Spit a challenge to fly like every plane should be on the edge we would solve our problems

[Jatta Raso]

the elevator is also very twitchy with the Spit, considerably more than before, has caused me a lot of missies from dead six, i end up fine tuning with the vertical trim on approaches and even so it's not easy; regarding rudder, it's the same situation with a sudden response on slight inputs. i find the control surfaces' response more sluggish at high speeds, although maybe more with the ailerons than with elevators.

as for the CEM questions, about WEP (boost cut-out in my case), well i don't think i can reach 2min at 3000rpm on cut-out without blowing the engine, and that with slight variations from level flight; i may fly for quite some time with cut out on 2700rpm, or i may be unable to sustain it at 2640rpm, it really depends on the given situation and speed; speed is another variable in the fray, i have been squeezing 300-310 mph at level flight with rad at 30-35% with cut-out at 2640rpm and getting away with it, i think because of the extra speed meaning extra cooling.

furthermore, i've realized there seems to be some random factors on the engine's thermal behavior; also there's a tendency to overheat when reaching 10000ft, sometimes forcing me to reduce rpm just below 2640rpm,or to reduce boost (throttle) which makes sense to me, as the air should be thinner and the prop would get less opposition, in turn heating up the shaft, governor and engine itself. right?

last note: i've read extensively that in RL the Spit was really childish to fly, "anyone could fly a Spitfire", so i don't think it's harmonic behavior is that far off... slightly overdone probably; what may be lacking to destabilize it some more is some wind conditions and different air masses with dissimilar air density

[Kwiatek]

Here are Real Life power settings for Merlin III and Merlin XII during BOB era:

Merlin III with CSP at 87 Octan fuel:

Max take off - +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM
Climbing (1/2 hour limit) - +6 1/4 at 2600 RPM
Continous cruising- +4 1/2 at 2600 RPM
All-out level flight (5 minutes limit) - +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM

Merlin III at 100 Octan :

Max take off - +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM
Climbing (1/2 hour)- +6 1/4 at 2850 RPM ( below 20 000 ft)
-3000 RPM (above 20 000 ft)
All-out level flight ( 5 minutes)- +6 1/4 at 3000 RPM ( 5 minutes)
Emergency power (5 minutes)- +12 lbs at 3000 RPM ( 5 minutes)


Merlin XII at 100 Octan

Max take off - +12 at 3000 RPM
(probably emergency 5-minutes also)
Climbing (1/2 hour limit) - +9 at 2850 RPM
Continous cruising- +7 at 2650 RPM
All-out level flight (5 minutes limit)- +9 at 3000 RPM


I really hope and want to see such power settings in CLOD RAF fighters

But probably it would be miracle if we see it

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by Jatta Raso

as for the CEM questions, about WEP (boost cut-out in my case), well i don't think i can reach 2min at 3000rpm on cut-out without blowing the engine, and that with slight variations from level flight;

Don't expect perf as in the manual if your eng is not properly in the same state as during the test.

For example if you are cruising too fast toward the combat zone, you can't expect max perf from your eng especially with WeP.

I scarcely see ppl cruising at 260/300+kph in game in a spit (some are and I like to see it).

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

You may run the engine on "5 minute all out" setting for 1 hours without overheating, however this would reduce the time between overhauls considerably (maybe to 20 hours compared to 100 hours).
On the other hand you may run the engine on "30 minute climb" setting for 10 minutes and damage the engine due to overheating, because radiator was shut and speed was to slow.

Or in the case of the p38 it would run forever without overheating but exceeding recommended time limits would stuff the turbocharger with the consequent drastic reduction in power.

Clearly in a game "overheating" is used to represent a wide range of engine faults not all of which manifested in real life as actual overheating. This applies to many FM and DM scenarios, you cannot model everything.

As a result if you want to claim your favorite ride has been nobbled (regardless of what plane is) its not to hard to find some area in any sim where the simplified modelling means a mismatch with historical data.