Vulching on the ATAG server.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by pstyle

To be honest, I would really advise using the rear bases. I take off from Gravesend and/or Maidstone once in about every three sorties. You never have to contend with pesky 109s above.

In fact, even Manston is "hot" only about 30% of the time in my experience. In fact, last night there were 60+ on the server, and I used up ~30% fuel (what's that 25 minutes?), in a 5,000ft circuit above Manston/Ramsgate and only 1 single german turned up the whole time - and that was a twin engine, not even a 109.

Yep, it's the luck of the draw. If one field is being strafed, chances are that another one far enough away but also close enough to go after the strafers is free.

Originally Posted by gimpy117

yeah i know, i wasn't sure wich one. the one right next to lymphe hurricaines.

That'd be Hawkinge then. Hawkinge has to be the most intensely strafed aerodrome of the lot. In fact, spawn anywhere else then fly to Hawkinge and 8 times out of 10 you'll find 109s down low just asking to be blown to bits.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Stublerone

@theOden: Up to my knowledge, they had no time to circle an airfield. They had tasks to do and the flight time of a bf109 after reaching great britain was not very long to do such things. Perhaps on their way, they could take a snapshot under some circumstances, but depending on their tasks, it wouldn't be possible very often.

A bf109 in game has more flight time, than in real war, as far as I know (because the map is also smaller scaled).

The map is actually 1:1 scale. The reason 109s can loiter longer in the sim is that they don't have to burn half their fuel zig-zagging over some bombers that are forming up deep in France at 200 km/h: we don't have Goering threatening us with execution when we fly ( ) and since not many people fly bombers yet, there is nothing for 109 pilots to escort.

If anyone wants 109s to be constrained by something, one should go to the bugtracker and vote for fixing the Lofte bombsights and Ju88 gyrocompass. Then the bomber pilots will be asking for escort and the 109s will not be forced to bounce airfields to find action

Originally Posted by von Brühl

German guncam footage is rare as a rule, but that's not saying the LW didn't get to shoot during WWII. Most of the film was lost/destroyed. However, I believe you are on the right track, the 109s did not as a rule spend time strafing airfields, they were kept busy at height.

I recall reading somewhere that the bulk of Luftwaffe's celluloid containing gun camera footage was hidden at the basement of a church in Dresden. When the city was firebombed near the end of the war, the rise in atmospheric temperature got so much that the celluloid (which is flammable) combusted and blew the church up. The church has since been rebuilt, but the gun camera footage is gone.

[Jatta Raso]

Originally Posted by atag_snapper

to catch a 109 pilot you first have to be smarter than the 109 pilot. Major borris outlined it well. Tbh, this is where the vast majority of my 109 kills come from.

I don't even bother to take off from another airfield anymore. With the latest patch & hotfix the warm up time on a spit iia is almost nil. When you take off in full fine pitch use your throttle to bring your revs up to 3,000 rpms (= 6 lbs boost). When you rotate, keep the nose down, bring your wheels up, use your prop pitch to bring your revs down to 2,800 rpms, open the overboost gate, increase throttle to full (= 9 lbs boost), close your rad to 50%, fly down the streets of margate or folkestone while trimming out, do not fly out to sea -- you'll be an easy target once you separate from the clutter of the town buildings. Instead make a hard right or left on the far outskirts of town and follow the terrain out ofthe immediate vicinity of the airfield.

Once you've reached 270 mph ias on the deck you should be well clear of the vulching action. Reduce throttle to 6.25 lbs boost and constant speed prop pitch to 2650 rpms. Start a gentle climb into the sun, never letting your speed fall below 200 mph ias. This gives you plenty of maneuvring speed if you should need it. Now you are transitioning from prey to hunter. Plan your strategy. Adjust your gunsight. As major borris said, get on comms (teamspeak 3) to get updates on the action at the airfield. Upon reaching 10,000 feet start heading back to the airfield, trying to keep the sun over your shoulder. Clouds are about 5,000 feet and are now opaque with this latest patch. Nothing like lining up a cloud between you and your airfield in the distance, then making a gentle dive at about 350 mph ias to arrive unannounced through the cloud with lots of e on hand. Be sure to reduce your throttle and pull back your prop pitch to avoid over revving.

Pick up a vulching intruder by following the trail of accurate white flak bursts following him. Keep an eye for any high covering 109's, then maintain your dive speed to saddle up behind your victim. Make sure you have the correct convergence and wingspan (32 feet) dialed on your gunsight. If you misjudged your attack, don't lose your smash. Hard throttle to 9 lbs boost again, prop pitch up to 2,800 and climb like hell again. At apex, reduce throttle so not to blow engine, but keep prop pitch to maintain revs around 2,800. Rinse and repeat.

Vulching vulchers can be fun!

excellent advice for counter vulching, doesn't get much better than this my routines at take off are much like this, but sometimes i go on attack right after take off as soon as i'm 240mph, some 109s forget to keep their E pursuing slower targets on deck. i'll reinforce the rule, don't head out to sea; also keep eyes on your tail on the runway and as you make your climbing turn right after airborne, if followed glue to tree top level, grass if you see a clearing, and weave left-right, you won't be an easy hit.

counter vulching, fun for everyone

[ATAG_Snapper]

Good stuff, Jatta!

[IvanK]

"The map is actually 1:1 scale. The reason 109s can loiter longer in the sim is that they don't have to burn half their fuel zig-zagging over some bombers that are forming up deep in France at 200 km/h: we don't have Goering threatening us with execution when we fly ( ) and since not many people fly bombers yet, there is nothing for 109 pilots to escort."

Related to this are Fuel Flows in game. Some really quick and dirty testing gives the following versus documented real world numbers:

Spitfire IIA
Climb +4/2800RPM 72gal hr. Book figures 94Gall hr
Cruise +2/2600RPM 60gal hr. Book figures 78 gall hr

BF109E4
Climb 1.35/2350 RPM (AUTO) 480Ltr/hr (106Gall/hr)
Max Cruise 1.35/2400RPM 360 ltr per hr. ... Spit value equiv is about 356Ltr hr so this value looks pretty good.

Yet to track down documented values but for a rough guide line they would similar to Spit values I would think. If some one can fill in the 109E values please do.

Blenheim IV
I4000ft at +3Lbs Boost Full Coarse pitch. 30 Gall/hr per engine i.e 60Gall hr total
Documented values 57Gall hr per Engine Total 114 Gall/hr

Edit: Added BF109E4 Climb Fuel Flow.
Notes: All Gall value are imperial.

[ATAG_Snapper]

This is good info. Thanks for posting this, IvanK.

[JG52Uther]

Actually I spend a lot of my time on ATAG escorting bombers, even AI, and it certainly does burn up the fuel! I love flying home with the red fuel light on!
The amount of trips I have made without seeing any intercepting fighters at all is amazing, so the sooner people get out of the weeds and up to a proper BoB altitude the better.

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by ATAG_knuckles

Borris: as long as we are on the subject: (which is a much better subject than the original) I dont remember see many "if any" gun camera footage of German strafing airfields, plenty of American though

The 109 rarely used gun-camera, because they have external guncam only (ESK 2000a type).

[drewpee]

I must say that when I play (OZ time) I only see about 12 to at best 30 players at a time. Players tend to be drawn to the coast and then to the air fields looking for action and it happens on both sides of the channel. Blue do have an advantage in warm up times so they can reach the coast quicker. Maybe that gives the impression that blue are the worst culprits. Shorter warm up times mite help ac to meet some were in the middle.
The thing is when flying red the longer warm up time leaves you vulnerable to EA attack. I would have thought in the real world the ground crew would have kept the AC's close to operating temperature other wise their precious fighters would be sitting ducks. Another thing I miss from il2 is the old fashion air raid siren. I have taken off and not realized an ea was near but with the air raid siren there is no mistake.

[bw_wolverine]

Eastchurch would be a great airfield to use, but ATAG's maps limit it to Blenheim air starts for some reason. I say open it up to player choice of aircraft and code and a lot of people would use it.

Is it one of the bugged airfields for spawns? Maybe that's the reason.

Maidstone is...bumpy. It's difficult to get up there (not impossible). Inexperienced pilots might have a very hard time taking off from Maidstone.

Also, with regard to the 109s taking out low and slow aircraft just after take-off: try this

If you're in a hurricane, drop your flaps a bit and weave at the slowest speed you can manage and still make it look like you're not about to stall. If you do it right, and the attacker isn't wise to it, he'll stall right into the ground. It'll work in a Spit too, just be careful not to damage the flaps at speed.

I've done this successfully on three occasions and it's very satisfying