Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[Crumpp]

these "certain units"

And why do you think it does not refer to the original 16 squadrons?

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

And why do you think it does not refer to the original 16 squadrons?

Name these 16 original squadrons.

[pstyle]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

And why do you think it does not refer to the original 16 squadrons?

Which "original 16"?
Who identifies these "original 16". I've not seen this bit yet (it might be too far back in the thread).. I'd happily accept a fresh link, if you'd oblige.

Assuming it were only these 16 (none of which I can find), if say, one of these 16 (as yet unidentified) squadrons was based at at a station with other units not in the 16, would that station have had both fuels?

[lane]

Originally Posted by pstyle

Which "original 16"?
Who identifies these "original 16". I've not seen this bit yet (it might be too far back in the thread).. I'd happily accept a fresh link, if you'd oblige.

Assuming it were only these 16 (none of which I can find), if say, one of these 16 (as yet unidentified) squadrons was based at at a station with other units not in the 16, would that station have had both fuels?

One possibility as to which squadrons comprised the 16; at the time of the March 1939 planning memo calling for 100 octane to be brought into use by 16 squadrons, 15 squadrons were operational with Spitfires or Hurricanes, with 3 others in the process of forming or converting. The units are as follows:

Mar-39
Sqdn Base Aircraft
1 Tangmere Hurricane
19 Duxford Spitfire
32 Biggin Hill Hurricane
41 Catterick Spitfire
43 Tangmere Hurricane
46 Digby Hurricane Converting from Gauntlets March 39
54 Hornchurch Spitfire Converting from Gladiator March 39
56 North Weald Hurricane
66 Duxford Spitfire
73 Digby Hurricane
74 Hornchurch Spitfire
79 Biggin Hill Hurricane
85 Debden Hurricane
87 Debden Hurricane
111 Northolt Hurricane
151 North Weald Hurricane
213 Wittering Hurricane
501 Filton Hurricane Forming with Hurricanes in March 39

One can see from the following listing that many units had converted prior to the Battle of Britain

111 Squadron ORB 15 February 1940
151 Squadron ORB, 16 February 1940
602 Squadron ORB, 16 February 1940
611 Squadron ORB, March 1940
74 Squadron, March 1940
100 Octane Fuel - Issue of., 12th December, 1939
A.P.1590B/J.2-W, Merlin II and III--Use of +12 lb./sq.in. Boost Pressure--Alterations, 20 March 1940
Emergency +12 lbs./sq. in. Boost Operation: Pilot's Notes, Merlin II, III and IV, 4th Edition, April 1940, page 6.
Air Chief Marshal H.C.T. Dowding, Handling of Merlin in Hurricane, Spitfire and Defiant Aircraft, 1st August, 1940

56 Squadron Combat Report, 9 May 1940: twelve boost
S/L J. O. W. Oliver, 85 Squadron, 10 May 1940: pulled the plug
F/O Paul Richey, 1 Squadron, 11 May 1940: boost-override pulled
F/O E. J. Kain, 73 Squadron, 14 May 1940: pulling his boost cut out
P/O D. W. A. Stones, 79 Squadron, 14 May 1940: pulled out the emergency boost-plug
Sgt. R. C. Wilkinson, 3 Squadron, 14 May 1940: 12 P.S.I.
P/O R. P. Beamont, 87 Squadron, 15 May 1940: I pulled the tit'* for over-boost... *Emergency boost over-ride on the Merlin engine
P/O F. B. Sutton, 56 Squadron, 18 May 1940: I had to pull the tit... Emergency boost control giving extra power
F/Lt. I. R. Gleed, 87 Squadron, 18 May 1940: pull the tit *; a jerk as my supercharger goes up to twelve boosts
P/O John Bushell, 151 Squadron, 18 May 1940: I used full 12 lb boost (pulled the plug)
S/L E. M. Donaldon, 151 Sqdn., 18 May 1940: I pulled the plug and climbed at 10 lbs boost
F/O C. F. G. Adye, 17 Squadron, 18 May 1940: pulled emergency boost control
F/O C. F. G. Adye, 17 Squadron, 19 May 1940: pulled emergency boost
F/Lt. I. R. Gleed, 87 Squadron, 19 May 1940: Here goes with the tit. A jerk - the boost's shot up to twelve pounds
Sgt. L. H. B. Pearce, 79 Squadron, 20 May 1940: Pulled tit
P/O John Freeborn, 74 Squadron, 24 May 1940: boost cut-out
P/O Colin Gray (NZ), No. 54 Squadron, 25 May 1940: I pressed the emergency boost tit
P/O Colin Gray (NZ), No. 54 Squadron, 25 May 1940: +12 lbs.
P/O Al Deere, No. 54 Squadron, 26 May 1940: 12 boost
F/LT Brian Lane, 19 Squadron, 26 May 1940: automatic boost cut-out
F/LT Brian Lane, 19 Squadron, 26 May 1940: 12 lb. boost
Sgt. J. C. Harrison, 229 Squadron, 28 May 1940: I pulled the emergency boost
P/O K. B. McGlashan, 245 Squadron, 28 May 1940: We’d boost an extra four pounds, from eight to twelve
P/O C. M. Simpson, 229 Squadron, 29 May 1940: with boost out and pulled
P/O T. D. Welsh, 264 Squadron, 29 May 1940: pulled boost cut-out
F/Sgt. G. C. Unwin, 19 Squadron, 1 June 1940: 12 Boost
Sgt. P. Ottewill, 43 Squadron, 1 June 1940: automatic boost cut-out pulled
P/O M. P. Brown, 611 Squadron, 2 June 1940: opened the boost cut-out
F/O D. H. Watkins, 611 Squadron, 2 June 1940: emergency boost
F/Lt. John Webster, No. 41 Squadron, 19 June 1940: 12 lbs boost
F/Lt. R. G. Dutton, 145 Squadron, 1 July 1940: pulled the plug
609 Squadron

[Al Schlageter]

It should noted lane that the squadrons you list are doing so well before the Sept date so often stated by some.

[lane]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

It should noted lane that the squadrons you list are doing so well before the Sept date so often stated by some.

Yes, the historical record shows that in March 1939 when the planners were looking at converting 16 fighter squadrons to 100 octane, there were in fact only 16 operational squadrons (+/- 1) equipped with Hurricanes or Spitfires. Clearly more than 16 squadrons had converted to 100 octane before the Battle of Britain.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by lane

Yes, the historical record shows that in March 1939 when the planners were looking at converting 16 fighter squadrons to 100 octane, there were in fact only 16 operational squadrons (+/- 1) equipped with Hurricanes or Spitfires.

Mystery of the 16 squadrons solved.

Now the 1C devs can feel free to give our Spits and Hurries their badly-needed and much-deserved +12 lbs of overboost and resulting emergency 5 minutes or so 30 mph increase in top speed. The sooner the better - a "hotfix #2" would be just the ticket!!!!

[robtek]

I am all for it, but only if there are felt penalties for abusing/overboosting the engines of all sides longer as rated!!!

Like loosing power slowly or better a increased chance of throwing a rod or something like that, this combined with corrected oil and water temperature changes.

[335th_GRAthos]

Originally Posted by lane

.........................................

Thanks Lane for the great job of putting things together in one post!


I am impressed by that battle report:
F/Lt. R. G. Dutton, 145 Squadron, 1 July 1940: pulled the plug
The leader went max out and it took him 5min to reach gun range (400yrds) and even then he had to stay in line behind the DO17 because even his (maxed out) speed was hardly sufficient to keep chase!
The DO-17 was reknowned to be fast but, that fast!

And then, he used up all his ammo to "slow down" the DO17 and then his No.2 made a pass and finaly his No.3 shot the DO17 down!

Interesting reading.

~S~

[Crumpp]

I am not so sure "pulling the plug" has anything to do with 100 Octane use at all.

The 1937 RAF Training Manual has instructions for boost cut out independant of 100 Octane fuel.

Additionally this certificate list the boost pressure well above the rated 6 1/2 lbs without boost cut out. The only approved fuel for this aircraft is 87 Octane.