Outperformed by AI every single time

[GraveyardJimmy]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

But it is too soon to tell if that is what is going on here in CoD or if it is a bug..

Luthier did says that the AI uses a simplified model of engine management.

Will not be changed. Engine model for AI is inherently simpler than that for the player. If we decide to make it more complex, there'll be a domino effect, and in any case there are more apparent game-affecting issues due to this than start-up.

Just assume that AI pilots have thorough mechanics, and yours is a lazy drunk.

This was in reference to a wish for AI to have to warm up engines on the bug tracker.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by GraveyardJimmy

Luthier did says that the AI uses a simplified model of engine management.

Which explains why the AI would be able to obtain the peek performace with ease, where as a real user would have to 'do more' to obtain the same performance..

Put another way, just because it is simplitied does not mean the AI should be able to obtain 'more' performance than a real user can, only that the real user would have to do more (settings wise) to obtain the same level of performance.

[ElAurens]

^What Ace said.

The AI can change settings as fast as, and as well as a computer. It's what they are after all...

In essence the AIs are flying with a modern engine management system, ala any modern automobile. Light years ahead of WW2 technology.

[FFCW_Urizen]

AoA, the problem is not that AI always flies their planes flawless, the problem is not that they get the best out of their engines, the problem is, that due to a simplified fm/dm, they can achieve and hold their best settings indefinetely without ever(!) overheating or damaging their engine. Just fire up a quick mission in a spit or hurri, engage autopilot and watch the boost/rpm gauges closely and watch your temps never exceeding 80° Oil/105° Water at revs around 2800 to 3000 with rads fully closed!!!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by FFCW_Urizen

AoA, the problem is not that AI always flies their planes flawless, the problem is not that they get the best out of their engines, the problem is, that due to a simplified fm/dm, they can achieve and hold their best settings indefinetely without ever(!) overheating or damaging their engine. Just fire up a quick mission in a spit or hurri, engage autopilot and watch the boost/rpm gauges closely and watch your temps never exceeding 80° Oil/105° Water at revs around 2800 to 3000 with rads fully closed!!!

And that is what most are talking about when they say the AI cheat..

In essance the AI can run the engine longer at peek settings than the real user.. I take that to mean that at the time of IL-2 (10 years ago) dev, they didnt think they had the resorses or smart enough AI to manage all those things.

On that note, prior to reaching the point where the real user's plane overheats, I don't recal 1C ever stating that the AI was able to obtain more performance than the real user.

With that said

That was all true of IL-2, I have yet to see 1C come out and say that is still the case with CoD

[FFCW_Urizen]

It feels like they obtain more performance, but then again, AI always flies flawless and that alone accounts for a few mph here and there.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by PotNoodles

So the question that needs answering is why do they want it this way? Is it something that cannot be fixed, or something they want to keep in the game?

The short answer is that CEM is very complicated and takes away a lot of resources.

Going into more detail, i have had the sim since the EU release and early tests back then showed that enabling CEM would cost about 10 FPS. And that's just for the player aircraft.

So, the player aircraft flies on CEM, but the AI fly on simplified rules.

For example, while in your plane there is a complex set of rules in the code that governs engine behaviour ("if paramater X rises to value Y then Z is affected, which in turn changes parameter A to value B and so on), the AI planes fly with a simplified rule set (to the effect of "don't exceed this value for that parameter"). This AI rule set is then affected by certain modifiers, depending on the AI skill levels.

Online it's not a problem because the parameters for each player controlled aircraft are calculated on their own PCs and (probably) only positional and speed (vector) data are exchanged with the server along with certain event flags.

Eg, if i blow my engine the server doesn't need to know the whole story behind how it happened. It only needs to know that the rest of the players need to see me streaking black smoke and how my speed and position are changing over time, which is probably exactly what is transmitted over the network.

Offline however, or online against AI, to have full CEM would place too much of a burden on our PCs or the servers hosting missions with AI.

In short, the compromise is very reasonable and necessary. What needs tweaking is the rule set under which the AI fly.

I think this is doable, since it's working under simplified rules to begin with. All the AI needs is to tone down some of their parameters (like their roll performance), place a timer on certain capabilities (so that they follow engine limits), place an upper limit that can't be exceeded by skill modifiers (so that AI skill doesn't exceed aircraft capabilities) and upgrade some others (so that even if surprised and being inactive at low skill levels, which i like, they should eventually start taking evasive action and not sit still indefinitely).

The real delay in such a process wouldn't come so much from the actual task of changing parameters in the code, but mostly from identifying what to change and how, as well as testing the results.