Inaccurate performance data for BOB fighters in COD comparing to RL data

[winny]

There's a book called "Britains war Machine" that I found last night. It contains a section devoted to the supply, use and production of 100 octane fuel.

It explains the whole Trimpell (Trinidad - ICI - Shell) refinery set up and says that the "shortage of 100 octane is a myth"

It's available as an e-book.

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by winny

There's a book called "Britains war Machine" that I found last night. It contains a section devoted to the supply, use and production of 100 octane fuel.

It explains the whole Trimpell (Trinidad - ICI - Shell) refinery set up and says that the "shortage of 100 octane is a myth"

It's available as an e-book.

ISBN number please?

[winny]

Originally Posted by Osprey

ISBN number please?

Britain's War Machine: Weapons, Resources and Experts in the Second World War - David Egerton
Hardcover: 464 pages
Publisher: Allen Lane; First Edition edition (31 Mar 2011)
Language English
ISBN-10: 0713999187
ISBN-13: 978-0713999181

It's on Amazon.
EDIT:
Here's the page I was refering to.



It then goes on to explain the sources of this fuel.
Kurfurst will hate it but the stock figures are from Gavin Bailey's paper..

[Crumpp]

I don't know where you are from Crump but there's no such thing as a standard day in England.

All - righty then....

[Crumpp]

If you intend to stick to this logic that's fair enough. As long as the engines in the sim produce correct amount of power at either of these settings used in real life, e.g. +6.25lbs. or +12lbs. as it is the case of early Merlins, I am happy.

MS gear is not Merlin II or III related btw. No matter how you look at it, the final result is exactly the same. And so is the reality that at this moment, what the title of this thread says is true, unfortunately.

All it does Robo is point out how much of an overloaded condition +12lbs was on the engine.

[Crumpp]

What the hell does 100/130 fuel, which wasn't even around during BoB, have to do with 100 octane fuel?

Do you know what 100 Octane fuel is, Milo?

[winny]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

All it does Robo is point out how much of an overloaded condition +12lbs was on the engine.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. There was a war on you know..

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

All it does Robo is point out how much of an overloaded condition +12lbs was on the engine.

RR approved overload during the war? Fair enough, should be in game.

[Crumpp]

In all of these publications 100 octane fuel and +12 is only a "minor footnote" and the "All out" limit is given as +6 1/4.

In the January 1942 edition it is definitely NOT a minor footnote. It is included in paragraph 1 above the operating limitations. They even specify January 1942 - ALL OPERATIONAL UNITS: 100 Octane ONLY



The technical order for this modification was not published until February 20, 1940.



This is not a minor modification nor is it an easy one from a manufacturing standpoint. Cylinder heads are a major component. Two heads have to be produced for every engine on the assembly line. All of the engines in the RAF inventory also have to have new cylinder heads produced as well. It is not going to happen overnight.

Milo Morani posted the instructions for Pilot Operating Notes earlier in this thread. The way it works is any technical instructions or service bulletins kept with the Operating Notes and act as updates as they are published.

When a new edition of the Operating Notes is published, all technical instructions issued since the previous Operating Notes edition are incorporated into the new edition of the Operating Notes.

That means we should see a mirror reflection of the January 1942 Operating Notes in our June 1940 edition if 100 Octane fuel was the standard and our technical instruction dated February 20, 1940 was intended for all operational aircraft.

Our June 1940 notes should alert the pilot in the operating that 100 Octane is the fuel for ALL OPERATIONAL UNITS just like the January 1942 edition IF 100 Octane is the standard fuel in use.

June 1940 Edition:





They do not reflect anything about 100 Octane fuel in the operating limits and nothing about it being for ALL OPERATIONAL UNITS.

This timeline of a gradual phase in of 100 Octane fuel begining in June 1940, becoming significant in October 1940, and operational conversion by December 1940 is evident from two sources.

You can see this in the Pilot's Operating Notes and the amount of fuel available at the airfields prior to June 1940. 100 Octane use is insignificant until October 1940. Proir to June 1940 we do not see a “combined” amount available at the airfields unless folks are now going to start claiming 100 Octane was in widespread use in 1938!!

I am sure that will be the next argument.

[Glider]

Crumpp
I think I can truly say that I have never seen such rubbish posted from someone who pretends and likes to believe that they know about aircraft.

The first document supports the contention that operational units had 100 octrane and non operational units had 87 octane. Something that has been said from the start.

The Alterations and Precautions Paper
This has three main sections:-
a) Modified Boost Control
The modifications as outlined in the paper are very straightforward and can easily be undertaken. Basically you drill two holes and reassemble the cut out valve, to pretend this is a major task shows a massive disrespect to the ground crew and support teams.
b) Modified Cylinder Top Joint
This change is already incorporated in new engines and is already being addressed in normal mainantence, so nothing to be done there
c) You need 100 Octane fuel

Which is what we have been saying from the start.

Your Pilots Notes dated June 1940
I do not believe for a moment that these are from June 1940. Reason is simple, it doesn't mention any fuel type. In June 1940 we know for certain from combat reports and station/squadrons records that 100 Octane was in use in a number of squadrons. If the type of fuel isn't mentioned then it can only be because only one type of fuel exists and that puts the pilots notes in 1938/9. Crumpp has been asked many times to supply other parts of the Pilots Notes to help us tie this issue down. His refusal to do so I believe speaks volumes.

Consumption Chart
The figures up to May are combined 87/100 octane figures which is why they are in the centre, a junior school student could work that one out.

These figures are for the RAF not Fighter command and I draw your attention to the figure for August 1940 36,000 tons of fuel were used by the RAF. In September 37,000 tons almost the same but the proportion of 100 Octane had gone up, In October 35,000 tons again a figure in the same ball park and 100 octane proportion again went up.

The question is, What changed between August and October? The reply is again very simple All operational Commands were Authorised to use 100 Octane in August. As the units in Bomber Command and Coastal Command switched over, so the proportion of 100 Octane increased.

Its also worth noting that in April 1941 when we all (I think) agree that 100 Octane was in use in Operational Commands the split between 87 Octane and 100 Octane was still 50/50. Training, Transport, BOAC, manufacturers and other non operational flights, use a lot of fuel.