BoB & Spitfire vs Hurricane (vs 109-ish) - an interesting viewpoint

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

PS, hi Manu

Hello mate!

I see you're doing a great job in the Marianas' campaign! !S!

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Hello mate!

I see you're doing a great job in the Marianas' campaign! !S!

Yeah its been really good fun, thanks for the invite, !S!

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by taildraggernut

True, I guess we should have at least given them a sporting chance, it really wasn't cricket we were playing.

Ehi what's wrong with you?

Originally Posted by taildraggernut

around 1,500 British/allied aircrew killed and you failed to provide that option in your argument, do you think we were hiding behind a magic force fileld here? you think we cheated?

Did Germans had that force field? Did they never died in their cockpits?
I didn't put the option since there was not a reason... dead is dead over any territory.

Originally Posted by taildraggernut

it's not all about the 110..

What's about then? The 110 was the only one fighter who could CAP over England because of his range. The 109s were better fighters but not could provide air superiority alone. With an automomy of 15 minutes over London they could not do very much... what it they went to battle using droptanks to increase their autonomy?

They could "protect" the bombers staying directly over english airbases, attacking the Spits/Hurries during their path for the bomber stream. This is air superiority.

Germany made a mistake when started the battle with this kind of equipment (and we can say the same about Stukas, great CAS machine who NEED air superiority to survive)

Originally Posted by taildraggernut

and the Germans had the advantage of :

years of massing a war machine they had been secretly developing, so nobody else was prepared because they had a more peacefull vision of the future.

Quite a bit of combat experience gained not only from the outbreak of war but also the combat experience gained by fighting for their fellow fashists in Spain, the sole purpouse of which was to gain an advantage in their sinister plans for war in europe.

They are responsible for that advantage... British and French were responsible for they lack of weapons... They could have prepared themself long before the war.

Instead the Channel is responsable for itself alone... the Germans have lost so much because of it.

So, I repeat my opinion: UK won the battle, of course, but more because Nazis' stupidity than for allied pilots' skill and machines.

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Yeah its been really good fun, thanks for the invite, !S!

I hope we'll fight each other again in campaign with shorter missions... 3 hours are too much for me

[taildraggernut]

Ehi what's wrong with you?

Nothing, and I haven't said theres anything wrong with you either, can nobody here argue a point without bringing sanity into question?

Did Germans had that force field? Did they never died in their cockpits?
I didn't put the option since there was not a reason... dead is dead over any territory.

Did I say that? but like you say it doesn't matter what territory you fight over, it doesn't immunise you from death by being over home, so what if 109's could only do 15 mins CAp, 15 minutes is a long time when you are trying not to be killed, 15 minutes is plenty of time for an uberfighter to take out a few inept island monkeys.

What's about then? The 110 was the only one fighter who could CAP over England because of his range. The 109s were better fighters but not could provide air superiority alone. With an automomy of 15 minutes over London they could do very much... what it they went to battle using droptanks to increase their autonomy?

They could "protect" the bombers staying directly over english airbases, attacking the Spits/Hurries during their path for the bomber stream. This is air superiority.

Germany made a mistake when started the battle with this kind of equipment (and we can say the same about Stukas, great CAS machine who NEED air superiority to survive)

like I said it's not all about the 110, spits and hurris were trying to shoot down, JU-87, JU-88, DO-17, HE-111, BF110, and BF109 in overwhelming numbers, are you saying the 109's protecting bombers meant they couldn't engage.....what the hell do you think they were protecting bombers from? the channel?

They are responsible for that advantage... British and French were responsible for they lack of weapons... They could have prepared themself long before the war.

could they? the German war machine was being developed in secret, what were we supposed to be preparing for if we didn't know it was coming until very late?

Instead the Channel is responsable for itself alone... the Germans have lost so much because of it..

yeah, while the British were trying to figure out how to tie shoe laces the channel was shooting bullets.

So, I repeat my opinion: UK won the battle, of course, but more because Nazis' stupidity than for allied pilots' skill and machines.

repeat away, I don't believe you, Nazis weren't stupid because they were german, and the British did a hell of a better job than you are giving credit.

[NZtyphoon]

Just to clarify a couple of points about air-sea rescue during the battle: for the British this was one of their weakest links and biggest oversights because there was no real a/s rescue organisation set up - British pilots and aircrew who ended up in the 'oggin were lucky if they either landed near a convoy and were picked up by a passing ship, or were close enough to land to swim ashore, or close enough to one of the German rescue buoys - otherwise they were often left to their own devices -according to this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/w...f-Britain.html

maybe 200 pilots were lost because of this failure. According to Stephan Bungay The Most Dangerous Enemy: A History of the Battle of Britain even the issue shirts worn by British pilots and aircrew (made by Litchfield) were a liability because the collars would shrink when wet, possibly helping to strangle the poor wearer. In addition, the issue "Mae Wests" were not self-inflating and it was well nigh impossible for someone who was injured or in shock to have the strength to inflate it. Of course, on top of it all the normally cold water meant hypothermia could set in very quickly.

By contrast the Luftwaffe was highly organised, with Seenotdienst air-sea rescue units, properly equipped rescue buoys and reasonable life jackets and life rafts, and all aircrew carried sachets fluorescein which created a large, easy-to-see, bright green patch when in contact with water.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by taildraggernut

Nothing, and I haven't said theres anything wrong with you either, can nobody here argue a point without bringing sanity into question?

Lets see: "few inept island monkeys", "British were trying to figure out how to tie shoe laces", "Nazis weren't stupid because they were german, uber-this, uber-that... you are acting like people who think germans pilots and machines where superior to the allied ones as they despite the allied's pilots and planes...
Dammit even if I claim the German machines weren't really so great (me110, Stukas, He111 and above all the serious 109's lack of firepower and range...) you act like I'm a German lover and of course a big GB hater...

An you've broken this too...

[taildraggernut]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Lets see: "few inept island monkeys", "British were trying to figure out how to tie shoe laces", "Nazis weren't stupid because they were german, uber-this, uber-that... you are acting like people who think germans pilots and machines where superior to the allied ones as they despite the allied's pilots and planes...
Dammit even if I claim the German machines weren't really so great (me110, Stukas, He111 and above all the serious 109's lack of firepower and range...) you act like I'm a German lover and of course a big GB hater...

An you've broken this too...

Make up your mind, am I insane or sarcastic?

[WTE_Galway]

National Pride ... even to the point of being irrational ... was a foundation stone for National Socialism.

Just saying ....