an idea to turn bob into true virtual reality

[zapatista]

the idea raiiid mentions has some merit, but his poor english makes it very difficult for him to bring it across coherently. right now the ubizoo fanboy attitude a lot of you are showing in your acrimonious replies here is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

if any of you are actually interested in how the "johny lee system" for the Wii differs from our current use of 6DoF in flightsims, skimp through the ubi thread raiiiiid linked to, and pay particular attention to the replies in it made by "Lurch1962", he is an astronomer by profession and knows his optics. there clearly is a difference in how this new visual effect works in SIMULATING what we see from a cockpit in real life, compared to how it currently is implemented in il2.

will it be possible to implement something like this in BoB ? i have no idea, but it surely is worth a closer look to try and improve realism in future flightsims. arnt we all here to try and get the best possible flightsim that current technology can provide ?

if you have a counter argument as to why it might not work, then make your argument based on facts, dont bitch and moan just because you dont like the poster and imeanwhile with your own behavior turn this into another zoo.

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

I'm happy to announce the Zoo is now completely moved to this forum.

I guess it's our own fault. If we stop throwing table scraps over the fence at the zoo maybe they'll stop following us back here.

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

Originally Posted by zapatista

the idea raiiid mentions has some merit, but his poor english makes it very difficult for him to bring it across coherently. right now the ubizoo fanboy attitude a lot of you are showing in your acrimonious replies here is throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

if any of you are actually interested in how the "johny lee system" for the Wii differs from our current use of 6DoF in flightsims, skimp through the ubi thread raiiiiid linked to, and pay particular attention to the replies in it made by "Lurch1962", he is an astronomer by profession and knows his optics. there clearly is a difference in how this new visual effect works in SIMULATING what we see from a cockpit in real life, compared to how it currently is implemented in il2.

will it be possible to implement something like this in BoB ? i have no idea, but it surely is worth a closer look to try and improve realism in future flightsims. arnt we all here to try and get the best possible flightsim that current technology can provide ?

if you have a counter argument as to why it might not work, then make your argument based on facts, dont bitch and moan just because you dont like the poster and imeanwhile with your own behavior turn this into another zoo.

Hear Hear! The only "zoo" like activity I see is the replies. This is certainly simple head tracking like trackIR but implemented in such a way as to give a more immersive effect.

[Former_Older]

That's a little hard to swallow

Maybe, Urufu, you and zapatista don't know raaaid?

I do. Lots of folks here do too

For the record, go to Ubi and look up posts that raaaid started or was in, that I was part of too, and defended him in. Look under the names "Chuck_Older" and "BBB462cid", and see how every time, I defended him or told the mob that I couldn't stand them ganging up on him

Then tell me about how self-righteous y'all are

I said I wasn't happy about the Zoo being here. That's ALL I said. Don't like it that I said that?

Tough titty said the Tiger to the Kitty

[TheFamilyMan]

Originally Posted by Urufu_Shinjiro

This is certainly simple head tracking like trackIR but implemented in such a way as to give a more immersive effect.

This is nothing more that 6DOF TIR. The only difference is the "world" that the guy modelled was all very close in distance from the viewer. IL-2 distances are either about a meter or less, or a few hundred to several hundred meters (usually). If you had a big monitor, a TIR, the 6DOF TIR mod from AAA (or just FSX), and a cockpit that was big enough to run around in, you could make your own immersive 3d video. BTW, why all the hostilities? I must be missing something here. That guy's work is relevant, but it's really targetted for wii console developers. TIR has already implemented this "immersion" for the PC realm. It's just that most people sit at a computer rather than stand and bob around its monitor.

[LEXX]

For those not liking ubizoo, Czech out the Simhq forums.

Wellcome raiid!

Looks like good stuff.

BoB coming to the Wii?

Is it true?

[Avimimus]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

New Ideas are just great aren't they?


Here is a great invention as well.

Winter beer was better!

[proton45]

A little while ago I started to participate in this forum again (after a short break) and I received a few (off-handed) "Ubizoo" comments in replay to something I said (they didn't bother to think about my comment)...I'm not the smartest, and I'm not the funniest but I like to get involved and if I can I try and help someone. I have been posting here ever sense the banana first opened for business but sometimes I like to take a break from one forum and I visit another. Now I used to post quite frequently at SimHQ and Mission4Today (under another name) but I'm starting to wonder what kind of reception I could expect from people (if anyone knew who I was) if I was to get involved again...

Frankly I think that their are some people who assume that anyone who participates in the Ubi community can be treated without respect...it's either that or they where just trolling for a flame, and I'm embarrassed to admit that on more then one occasion I have fallen pray to a trolls bait.

Yawn

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by TheFamilyMan

This is nothing more that 6DOF TIR. The only difference is the "world" that the guy modelled was all very close in distance from the viewer. IL-2 distances are either about a meter or less, or a few hundred to several hundred meters (usually).....

thats what it might look like on the surface, but i dont think that is the case. have a look at what somebody who understands optical effects said about why it is different to our current 6DoF from track-ir.

Originally Posted by Lurch1962

The key to understanding what *the johny-lee-system does* is to consider *distant* objects, not stuff that's very near the virtual pilot, such as the panel/gunsight, etc. If you move your head 1 foot closer to something only 2 feet away, it will appear to grow about a factor of two. But a hangar 1,000 feet away will not change in apparent size.

With the current implementation of 6DOF, as the player moves closer to the screen, the distant landscape *also* appears to increase in size because of the closer viewing distance to the screen. And this is because the game's FOV remains *fixed* while the player bobs his noggin. To a spectator (just like us when viewing 6DOF videos on Youtube) the background scenery stays at the same size. It looks OK to us sitting motionless, but it's not correct for the player, who sees a scene "painted" on a screen no more than arm's length away.

Therefore 6DOF should be implemented such that as the player approaches his monitor, the game's FOV will widen by just the right degree so that he sees no apparent change in size for *distant* scenery. To a spectator, the FOV would widen, but to the player the scale would remain fixed while the "window" through which the virtual world is seen expands. Also, note that nearby objects would appear to enlarge, just as they do in reality.

The foregoing is practically a moot point for those who sit well back from their monitors, such that the range of fore-aft head motion is less than, say, 25% of the distance to the screen. But for those of us who like to get close to the screen in order to enjoy a more immersive experience, this effect can be rather considerable.

point being, that for most desktop users (with monitors ranging from 20 to 30') this suggested slight variation on the current 6DoF track-ir implementation, would more closely SIMULATE what a pilot would see when he moves his head in a real aircraft cockpit,

or to explain this a slightly different way ....

Originally Posted by Lurch1962

he'd like to enjoy an even wider FOV if he chooses to put his eyes *closer to the monitor*. The effect would be like walking closer to a window to get a better look outside.

If the head tracking device can determine relative changes in distance to the player (as it must for 6dof to work), it would be simple to track absolute distances. From this, and the known size of the screen, an appropriate FOV could dynamically be selected and continuously varied, depending on the player-to-screen separation.

Of course, from too close to the screen the view will become rather coarse (pixellated, if you will), assuming it could be focused on*

At any rate, the concept is fully viable. It just requires a few lines of code in a game to implement the data from the head tracker in the correct fashion, and a wider limit to FOVs, say, up to 140 degrees.

During play, as the player moves in toward the screen the FOV will widen just as though he were looking through a window. The image scale of any distant scenery will remain unchanged, as it should because the range of head motion is small compared to the distance to faraway objects. However, objects in the cockpit will enlarge appropriately because of their proximity.

Of course, to a spectator, or to those watching vids or tracks from a fixed distance from the screen, the effect would be rather like the results of many amateur videographers who always ride the zoom button on their camcorders.

to me that sounds like an excellent idea, and he explains it clearly. i suspect that those who think it is no different from a track-ir are looking at this from the "spectator" viewing perspective, rather than the 1e person view that a user has from within the sim itself (when being the pilot who moves their head inside the virtual cockpit).

if there are other posters here who know enough about optics, and its implementation in the physics of modern game engine design, then they can possibly make valid counter arguments. right now all that seems to be happening is that people either dont understand how this would work, or have personal grudges against the original poster. i have no idea who raiiid is but the post he made here has a valid suggestion, and half the people here are probably escapees from the zoo. if you want this forum to be different, then all it takes for people here to act... err differently.

Originally Posted by TheFamilyMan

That guy's work is relevant, but it's really targetted for wii console developers. TIR has already implemented this "immersion" for the PC realm. It's just that most people sit at a computer rather than stand and bob around its monitor.

a version of this is simple to implement to the pc if people already use a track-ir, and remember that since this can be done with just a few lines of code, it could be implemented as an OPTION, where people select either "standard 6DoF" or something like "Wii enhanced 6DoF". you dont want to use it and prefer the old viewing system, then just select the old version in your setup options, but dont bust other il2 users chops if they find ways to further improve this sim.

we are also currently still referring to this as a "Wii system effect" here, but that is only because it was first brought to our attention by a Wii user on youtube, and at least other posters here will know what is being discussed. the visual effect however doesnt need a Wii console, and could be implemented in any other game as long as the user has some type of 3D tracking system to monitor the movement of the player (track-ir, freetrack, etc..)