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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

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  #211  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:53 PM
Sutts Sutts is offline
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Originally Posted by 6S.Tamat View Post
do you have an idea of how complex is to manage only the facial expressions of a so big amount of characters?

I provided more similar examples, but talking about complexity it is not true that a flight simulator is more complex; more physic calculations is not meaning more complex. IMHO.

If you were a programmer you'd know that the same routine would be used for all the characters in the game with different data plugged in. More facial expressions is not meaning more complex.
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  #212  
Old 03-26-2012, 04:59 PM
6S.Manu 6S.Manu is offline
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Sometimes you can optimize code by making small changes. Sometimes it requires big changes. It's not always possible to know that you made bad choices early in the design process.
Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!
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A whole generation of pilots learned to treasure the Spitfire for its delightful response to aerobatic manoeuvres and its handiness as a dogfighter. Iit is odd that they had continued to esteem these qualities over those of other fighters in spite of the fact that they were of only secondary importance tactically.Thus it is doubly ironic that the Spitfire’s reputation would habitually be established by reference to archaic, non-tactical criteria.
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  #213  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:00 PM
Insuber Insuber is offline
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You can continue this discussion forever, because there is no common measure of the "complexity" of a game. As Tamat says, the complexity of a sim is a matter of faith. And a physical FM can be less complex than a parametric FM.
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  #214  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:01 PM
David Hayward David Hayward is offline
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Originally Posted by 6S.Manu View Post
Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!
Not if you run out of time and money and have no choice but to release. Then you release anyways and hope that you can fix it after release.

Does that situation sound familiar?
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  #215  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:08 PM
6S.Manu 6S.Manu is offline
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Not if you run out of time and money and have no choice but to release. Then you release anyways and hope that you can fix it after release.

Does that situation sound familiar?
I can't disagree with you here but you said:
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Originally Posted by David Hayward View Post
Complicated applications are never optimized at initial release. How long have you been programming?
So is every complicated application released because of these issues?

I don't think so.
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A whole generation of pilots learned to treasure the Spitfire for its delightful response to aerobatic manoeuvres and its handiness as a dogfighter. Iit is odd that they had continued to esteem these qualities over those of other fighters in spite of the fact that they were of only secondary importance tactically.Thus it is doubly ironic that the Spitfire’s reputation would habitually be established by reference to archaic, non-tactical criteria.
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  #216  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:10 PM
d.burnette d.burnette is offline
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Of course but you recognize those BIG problems during the testing of the Alpha version... not at release!
I tell you guys I always think of one thing in anything that might "bug" me, and I truly always try at least to live by it.

Never sweat the "small stuff", don't sweat the " stuff you cannot control", never look back because " you can't change a dang thing that has already occured".
The only thing I myself can do, from my perspective, is control " how I react" to these things as they occur - and I try to keep the above in mind when I do.

It is amazing when things happen to us, that are really big - like health issues, major surgeries, or worse,or to our loved ones - how are perceptions on the thing we once thought of how very important they were, all of a sudden - they really were not and meant very little.

Just sharing my newbie wisdom of the day...


Have fun!
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  #217  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:10 PM
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6S.Tamat 6S.Tamat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sutts View Post
If you were a programmer you'd know that the same routine would be used for all the characters in the game with different data plugged in. More facial expressions is not meaning more complex.
You need to program the behaviour of the facial expressions with all the different faces also of different races, I am not a professional programmer, but talking about CG effects what you explain to be simple or routine was one of the more complex problems that the movie avatar had. Gaming industry is different obviously, but again complexity is not only something that you can analyse on the final code only..
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  #218  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:14 PM
6S.Manu 6S.Manu is offline
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You can continue this discussion forever, because there is no common measure of the "complexity" of a game. As Tamat says, the complexity of a sim is a matter of faith. And a physical FM can be less complex than a parametric FM.
Infact after the release I was scared about the CloD stage of development since the quantity of evident bugs... just think about at the ones that you don't see (FM, DM ect).

IMO the developer should build SDKs just to test those engines, initially to debug the engine itself and of course finally to tweak the plane's data.
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A whole generation of pilots learned to treasure the Spitfire for its delightful response to aerobatic manoeuvres and its handiness as a dogfighter. Iit is odd that they had continued to esteem these qualities over those of other fighters in spite of the fact that they were of only secondary importance tactically.Thus it is doubly ironic that the Spitfire’s reputation would habitually be established by reference to archaic, non-tactical criteria.

Last edited by 6S.Manu; 03-26-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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  #219  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:25 PM
adonys adonys is offline
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Sorry, but neither of those are anywhere near as complex as CloD. Nice character animation, sure, but a far stretch from modelling land sea and air and all the complexity and physics of a whole bunch of WWII aircraft and weapons systems.

You'll be telling me they model the ballistics of their pistols next.
Really? and you know that from.. where?

Do you have ANY idea at all what it means to code a game like Skyrim, and a game like IL2CoD? What game systems are involved in those? How a game engine is working at all? And I am not talking about the graphics/render engine, but about the game engine..

Obviously, you don't, otherwise you would have not mentioned that.

Skyrim has a HUGE world. HUGE! And the Editor.. the TES Creator only in itself is more complex than the whole IL2CoD! Mafia II has physics and damage modelling of cars and weapons. And guess what? It also has collision, on all that HUGE world of it.

Want some other examples? Assassin's Creed games.. also with HUGE worlds, hundreds of buildings, lots of details, collision, hundreds of characters, and so on. Do you know how many animations had the system they've developed for AC1? ANY idea at all? I'll tell you: 10000 animations. Now come and tell me that Il2CoD is more complex than a game that has an animation system for the main character which manages and blends them as beautifully and seamlessly as AC does.. and I'll tell you you never worked on developing games and you don't have any idea what you're talking about!

Don't talk about thing you don't know.. just because you think, I assume from what you "see", that IL2CoD is more complex than those games, it doesn't make it so!

Last edited by adonys; 03-26-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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  #220  
Old 03-26-2012, 05:32 PM
nearmiss nearmiss is offline
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Air combat simulators are very complex.

Every bullet fired has plotted trajectory, every aircraft in the scenario is flying and shooting.

Everything moving has to be accounted for when you compare games.

As long as you see the movement that is all being plotted.

The graphics are doing their thing as well on every moving and non-moving object in the scenario.

Last edited by nearmiss; 03-26-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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