Bomber boys - bbc one

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Yes.....why not? why not remind the world of terrible events in history and the people involved, no I will stick to my explanations in comfort, I obviously don't need to come to terms with anything, whatever you choose to represent Bomber command anybody wanting to find out more will eventually discover Arthur Harris.

right, so according to your arm-twisting logic, it would be ok to have a statue of Gary Glitter for his "musical achievements"?

Do you even hear how ludicrous what you're saying is?
Last time I checked in the encyclopaedia of common sense, a full figure statue was meant as a celebrative form reserved for men that acted for the good of their own country, contributing in some substantial, determining and above all exemplar way.

And still you like to hide behind the curtain of "stop bashing the Brits you ungrateful bugger!".. if I made the statement about Hitler's statue that Hood did, god knows what you would have accused me of..

Theres a waxwork of Hitler at Madame Tussauds, obviously your interpretation of what a statue or likeness is designed to achieve is different from most others.

a waxwork that has been the object of many critics and damage apparently.. I don't think it's a good idea, especially when people take pictures with it.. it's twisted and resembles how light heartedly some people take the whole matter, turning one of the most twisted dictators of history into a tourist attraction is despicable.

Google is completely irrelevant in this whole discussion, when I google the same I find the Wiki which clearly mentions all the controvesy surroundin him and the statue, but reminds us of why the 'veterans' themselves sanctioned it.

I don't get desparate at all, but your need to prove the UK is some sort of maniacal German hating nation seems very desparate and computes even less.

you always have to generalise. It's not like the whole UK agrees about that statue as you know, that's my point. I just find it intolerable, like I wouldn't like a statue of Mussolini, Pol-Pot, Bin Laden etc...

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

My bold.

Yes.

commemorate |kəˈmeməˌrāt|
verb [ with obj. ]
recall and show respect for (someone or something) in a ceremony: a wreath-laying ceremony to commemorate the war dead.
• serve as a memorial to: a stone commemorating a boy who died at sea.
• celebrate (an event, a person, or a situation) by doing or building something: it was a night commemorated in a song.

[winny]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

right, so according to your arm-twisting logic, it would be ok to have a statue of Gary Glitter for his "musical achievements"?

Do you even hear how ludicrous what you're saying is?
Last time I checked in the encyclopaedia of common sense, a full figure statue was meant as a celebrative form reserved for men that acted for the good of their own country, contributing in some substantial, determining and above all exemplar way.

And still you like to hide behind the curtain of "stop bashing the Brits you ungrateful bugger!".. if I made the statement about Hitler's statue that Hood did, god knows what you would have accused me of..


a waxwork that has been the object of many critics and damage apparently.. I don't think it's a good idea, especially when people take pictures with it.. it's twisted and resembles how light heartedly some people take the whole matter, turning one of the most twisted dictators of history into a tourist attraction is despicable.


you always have to generalise. It's not like the whole UK agrees about that statue as you know, that's my point. I just find it intolerable, like I wouldn't like a statue of Mussolini, Pol-Pot, Bin Laden etc...

You're comparing Harris to Bin-laden? That's a little extreme...

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by winny

You're comparing Harris to Bin-laden? That's a little extreme...

well maybe, but there's a lot of people out there that still thinks he did a great deal of good to human kind

[bongodriver]

right, so according to your arm-twisting logic, it would be ok to have a statue of Gary Glitter for his "musical achievements"?

I will do one of your responses here.......

you always have to generalise. It's not like the whole UK agrees about that statue as you know, that's my point. I just find it intolerable, like I wouldn't like a statue of Mussolini, Pol-Pot, Bin Laden etc...

Ok so you aren't generalising the UK, thats nice to hear finally, so why exactly have we been debating, you heard what the general oppinion is of Harris's statue......controversy and division, hardly a united front bowing down at it's feet.

And still you like to hide behind the curtain of "stop bashing the Brits you ungrateful bugger!".. if I made the statement about Hitler's statue that Hood did, god knows what you would have accused me of..

But you really do alot of Brit bashing, almost every thread like this one you seem to get involved with accusations of Nationalist bias....blah blah, no hiding behind the curtain for you........and as a Brit I find it offensive.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

Exactly. So the message that one conveys should be: "Let's not forget that this man caused the unnecessary death of hundreds of thousands of people on both sides", right?

The darkest chapter of the RAF surely doesn't deserve a statue of his mastermind.

But you don't mind statues of Churchill?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

I will do one of your responses here.......

well, there you go. You think it's silly, so do I. In the end of the day what specific achievements did the Area Bombing of Harris generate? None. Without even going into the moral aspect of things, under a military point of view, the logistic strain and the price toll in terms of crews and aircraft he caused didn't justify his strategy, am I wrong? The fact that a selected number of airmen show devotion for their commander doesn't necessarily mean he did the right thing, does it?

Ok so you aren't generalising the UK, thats nice to hear finally, so why exactly have we been debating, you heard what the general oppinion is of Harris's statue......controversy and division, hardly a united front bowing down at it's feet.

Once again, and I'll make it bold so hopefully it will stay: it's not a general attack to the UK, it's finding controversial and unnecessarily provocative to raise a full body monument to Bomber Harris and trying to make it more acceptable by dedicating it to the Bomber Command, it's like making a fullsize monument in the shape of the A-Bomb and dedicating it to the USAAF.

But you really do alot of Brit bashing, almost every thread like this one you seem to get involved with accusations of Nationalist bias....blah blah, no hiding behind the curtain for you........and as a Brit I find it offensive.

So what? I do a lot of other bashing too, it just happens to be that when I bash the Brit it generates an uncommonly self-righteous tirade.. I wonder why?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

But you don't mind statues of Churchill?

Apart for my personal judgement on Churchill's role in the whole affair (which again is not pretty clear, since the pressure for the "go" on the area bombing was coming from different fronts, he never was particularly fond of it, as it emerged in several private letters that came out), I normally think that one should avoid erecting statues of political leaders (let alone military ones!), especially if they were involved in controversial decisions.

[PeterPanPan]

Originally Posted by winny

You're comparing Harris to Bin-laden? That's a little extreme...

+1 ... a rather thoughtless comparison indeed. (Can't believe this thread is still going ... oops, I'm partly to blame )

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by PeterPanPan

+1 ... a rather thoughtless comparison indeed. (Can't believe this thread is still going ... oops, I'm partly to blame )

it is if you keep on looking at things with a Western perspective..