Oleg, very curious on the AI in Battle of Britain.

[LEXX]

Oleg once said he will use simplified AI for distant aircraft -- what I fear may be like the AI Bubbles used in some sims like Rowan's BoB and MiG Alley. Its possible the individual AI pilot personalities will be confined to the Player Squadron only.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Oleg once said he will use simplified AI for distant aircraft -- what I fear may be like the AI Bubbles used in some sims like Rowan's BoB and MiG Alley. Its possible the individual AI pilot personalities will be confined to the Player Squadron only.

Good questions indeed.

I remember that, too, but I rather think of it like it was realized in the Falcon-series. There was a war with literally thousands of units in the air and on the ground + several fleets for both sides. While they were outside the players visibility, they were merely calculated by chance and a simplified strategy system. When they were close enough for the player to become important, they were simulated as real units, with armor values, radar and effective gun ranges, etc.

Compared to WW2 planes, for example, there is little interest in simulating fear and fatigue as it was noted in that statement from Oleg in every AI gunner of a B17. Instead I imagine a formation will have sort of a swarm-intelligence, as they will stick together and react to communications and radar as a single unit. When they get closer, it's probably different values for each pilot being simulated, e.g. awareness of each pilot, while other things like CEM would be pretty much simplified. When entering combat, they'd probably simulate each pilot with the stated values and complex A.I.

[Widowmaker214]

I was glad to hear about the blind spots for BOB...
As the AI have been the worst part of IL2...
The ridiculous (and heavily used) negative G maneuvers...
and the head hunting AI on ACE level..
seeing through clouds and weather...
as well as the AI bomber gunners...

These are glaring problems of the game as a whole... and I know some of them will be addressed in BOB..
Id also like to see that their friend/foe identification is limited to a very close range. As it is now.. they seem to know you are enemy from the start...
rather than having to close and visually ID like we would without labels.
Making it so they have to get within say 2km or so before determining if you are friend or enemy would be nice. Or whatever is a an acceptable distance..
I dont know how the draw distance is yet in BOB

Id also like to see a much broader range of skills. Right now how you set the AI... you get to much of one thing and not enough of the other.. and setting it on ace.. well they are all aces...
I'd like to see even the ace level settings.. only allowing a "few" aces..

For squadrons with varying skill levels of pilots.. that makes flying as a group more engaging...

you never know what your going to come up against... but you dont have to worry about them all being aces. You dont want your less experienced guys getting discouraged cause all they ever do is take off and get shot in the head by all the ace AI.


But for the many of us that enjoy COOP type flying vs the air quake rooms... it will be nice to see the AI on a more even playing field and using the same flight models

nearmiss said something that it wouldn't be that important in online play... but I seriously beg to differ...
online coop has great appeal to many. And that requires some very good AI.

Disregarding AI.. I rate IL2 as an 11 out of 10. The best WWII sim ever.
But when you factor in the AI... that drops it to a 7
Its the only thing I hear people complain constantly about.

did you see that?!?!? God I hate those #$#* negative G manuvers!! Hey look at this.. this Ki-43 is out running my mustang!?! and etc.

So im really hoping they do a vast improvement on the AI.

[Feathered_IV]

A setting for level of aggressiveness would be essential too. Aces that can fight defensively and rookies that go charging in etc. Hyper-aggressive types would even target you in your parachute...

[LEXX]

Feuerfalke (regarding Falcon sim)::

While they were outside the players visibility, they were merely calculated by chance and a simplified strategy system.

Interesting. I would hope its a bit more than beyond the player's visibility -- 10km or 20km is not very far, especially for jets. Oleg did say more recently that external camera view may be restricted to aircraft close to the player, or some sort of restriction that implied an AI Bubble. Its possible that the distant aircraft will be simulated abstractly, which might be workable for a very large strategic level air warfare simulation. But to be honest, I really think that AI BOMBERS can be simulated directly, with very simple flight models, since their primary function is to fly in formation as their primary offensive and defensive combat tactic, unlike fighters using energy and manuever for offensive and defensive combat tactics.

For example, I'm trying to build a map for the StrikeFighters where the USSR can be surrounded by SAC airbases, with the map extending from Pakistan to Japan and north to Norway and Alaska. Any sim that tried to cover that might benefit from having aircraft and combat simulation beyond say, 1000km from the Player Plane made more abstract. Although environmental effects like aurora should be visible to several thousand kilometers, and some combat effects can be seen from thousands of kilometers, depending on yield...

Trinity site, CHAPTER II: Descriptions of Nuclear Explosions ~> http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/n...t/enw77b1.html

In several of the nuclear tests made in the atmosphere at low altitude at the Nevada Test Site, in all of which the energy yields were less than 100 kilotons, the glare in the sky, in the early hours of the dawn, was visible 400 (or more) miles away. This was not the result of direct (line-of-sight) transmission, but rather of scattering and diffraction, i.e., bending, of the light rays by particles of dust and possibly by moisture in the atmosphere.

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Feuerfalke (regarding Falcon sim)::
Interesting. I would hope its a bit more than beyond the player's visibility -- 10km or 20km is not very far, especially for jets. Oleg did say more recently that external camera view may be restricted to aircraft close to the player, or some sort of restriction that implied an AI Bubble. Its possible that the distant aircraft will be simulated abstractly, which might be workable for a very large strategic level air warfare simulation. But to be honest, I really think that AI BOMBERS can be simulated directly, with very simple flight models, since their primary function is to fly in formation as their primary offensive and defensive combat tactic, unlike fighters using energy and manuever for offensive and defensive combat tactics.

For example, I'm trying to build a map for the StrikeFighters where the USSR can be surrounded by SAC airbases, with the map extending from Pakistan to Japan and north to Norway and Alaska. Any sim that tried to cover that might benefit from having aircraft and combat simulation beyond say, 1000km from the Player Plane made more abstract. Although environmental effects like aurora should be visible to several thousand kilometers, and some combat effects can be seen from thousands of kilometers, depending on yield...

In F4 the bubble was 120km IIRC.

[LEXX]

120km. Not bad. Thanks.

Depends on aircraft performance. For something with the performance of B-70s and MiG-25s, maybe 1000km, considering the tracking of ground control which I think Oleg is making for BoB And Beyond should have, although for much lower performing aircraft.

[Bloblast]

We see a lot of pictures of the development, but nothing said about AI development in the game. Has there been any news the last 2 years? Really curious about this development.

[imaca]

Originally Posted by LEXX

Oleg once said he will use simplified AI for distant aircraft -- what I fear may be like the AI Bubbles used in some sims like Rowan's BoB and MiG Alley.

Personally I'm hoping this IS the case - I would rather have CPU cycles devoted to good AI for aircraft I'm fighting against than a lesser AI spread across the entire map.
Also it would presumably then be easily possible to have a map only high speed mode (as in the old Pacific Air War), so campaigns can be fought by those who have a life outside of sims.

Originally Posted by LEXX

Its possible the individual AI pilot personalities will be confined to the Player Squadron only.

This seems unlikely, surely it makes more sense to give the opposition better AI than the players own squadron.