The MOD mentality....

[fruitbat]

Again +1 on Vpmedias skin mod, over the last 4 years or so thats gone in every one of my various installs slowly getting more comprehensive, and i've pretty much changed all the default skins now to my favs. Love that it changes static planes as well, makes populated airfields look so much better imo, and like how you can specify a desert, winter and summer skin that changes automatically depending on the map.

changing



to

[Bearcat]

I never knew I could do that with the skin mod..

[KG26_Alpha]

The problem is your getting a very particular single thing from the mods to make your experience better, but the overall impact is bigger.

New pilots coming to HL give up because of the complexity of getting into a server due to the variation of installations.

I can sit there for hours giving advice on installing IL2 1946 patches, then the mods mob take over bombarding new guys with the best mod pack the new guys leaves confused or follows the advice and cant join any servers due to time outs or messed up installations.

I'm all for developing IL2 1946 into a bigger better sim/game and it seems to be heading in the right direction, the quality control probably filters out most of the "feature mods" you mention as some of them cause more problems globally rather than individually, ecran wide heavily loaded cockpits polys etc etc.

As it stands were loosing new pilots by the bucket load.

And calling them fools is not the way to go just because they don't follow your way of mod's thinking.

UP3 RC4 is no longer supporting CooP missions only MDS code.

And I see Fruitbats already calling for the death of CooP missions. > http://ultrapack.il2war.com/index.php/topic,5059.0.html

How long will it be before the mod pack makers start deciding the way they want you to fly IL2 1946 ?


.

[Asheshouse]

Very nice model of Enterprise (not Yorktown). Believe me. I fully understand why this cannot be released through TD. As for NG, in my view, the only rights they have gained are those which they obtained when 1C were forced into an agreement under duress. --- but thats all covered on another exhausted thread. I do not believe that I am breaking any rules or laws or breaching any ones copyright by working on my current project. If I did believe that then of course I wouldn't do it, anonymously or otherwise.

Ashe

[Jumoschwanz]

KG_26 Alpha pretty much sums up my thinking with his last post on this subject.

I have installed mods and flown them both off and online in the past. The extra features and aircraft and hollywood effects they offered were interesting but I never thought they were worth risking the flight sim and community for.

I tried track IR too, bought one brand new for myself, and it seemed more trouble than it was worth. I don't know how many guys I have flown with that had it go wacky on them during a flight and had to bow out to get their **** back together and working for them.

Very often I always told newcomers to IL2 that all they needed to fly online with anyone toe-to-toe was an up-to-date installation and a twisty-stick with a good hat-switch. It is all I have been using for many years. My Microsoft Precision 2, which I recently bought for $5 at a thrift shop, is installed and used with all default settings.

That is the way to sell the sim to those newly interested in it as far as I am concerned. Then they can just have fun instead of worrying about gadgets and extra software that they certainly do not need at all to have fabulous times with IL2 Sturmovik.
Later on after they get their sea-legs then they will do whatever they want, but Like Alpha said, I have seen dozens of people on Hyperlobby chat struggling for no good reason with mod installations and fancy hardware, and I would not blame them at all for quickly deciding that it is all too much compared to their gaming boxes and simpler distractions out there.

After over a decade I still enjoy flying the official version of IL2 and using the same stick because it does the job and I don't have to think about anything unless I feel like it.

Thank you to all the modelers and coders who have helped Oleg and company and TD work on the sim to keep improving it, and no thank you to those who have put themselves before it. That has always been my point.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

The problem is your getting a very particular single thing from the mods to make your experience better, but the overall impact is bigger.
New pilots coming to HL give up because of the complexity of getting into a server due to the variation of installations.
I can sit there for hours giving advice on installing IL2 1946 patches, then the mods mob take over bombarding new guys with the best mod pack the new guys leaves confused or follows the advice and cant join any servers due to time outs or messed up installations
I'm all for developing IL2 1946 into a bigger better sim/game and it seems to be heading in the right direction, the quality control probably filters out most of the "feature mods" you mention as some of them cause more problems globally rather than individually, ecran wide heavily loaded cockpits polys etc etc.
As it stands were loosing new pilots by the bucket load.
And calling them fools is not the way to go just because they don't follow your way of mod's thinking.
UP3 RC4 is no longer supporting CooP missions only MDS code.
And I see Fruitbats already calling for the death of CooP missions. > http://ultrapack.il2war.com/index.php/topic,5059.0.html
How long will it be before the mod pack makers start deciding the way they want you to fly IL2 1946
.

Nowhere did I call anyone a fool. If that is not how I roll. If you interpreted my statement as saying you or anyone else was a fool then I apologize, but you misunderstood (If that was indeed your interpretation of what I said). What I said was that this argument or debate if you will, over mods is a foolish waste of time.... and I stand by that firmly. The sim is modded and has been that way for at least the past 5 years, and will be that way from here on out therefore to even debate mods is a waste of time. What will save this sim in the long run is for as many well done mods as possible to be incorporated into the stock sim where and if they can be and for whatever new stuff TD can come up with based on their having the green light from 1C, that the mod community will have to piecemeal being added as time and resources permit thereby making the stock sim more appealing to a broader spectrum of simmers. Evidence for this is already seen in that there are more people flying stock now than any other time since the whole mod community took off. I believe that this is because TD added some of the better, more functionally imersive modsntonthe stock sim and added more of their own content as I said. I think it is great and I would like nothing more than to be able to go into a few decent stock servers, coops ot otherwise, and have a blast. That will be more likely as long as TD keeps going in the direction it is going. That is all I am saying.

[HundertneunGustav]

easy online = new pilots?
are we losing?
the online arguments are okay.
but if we discuss "pilot losses" then one question must also be asked: where are these new pilots recruited from?
online in some sort (forums, mail, newsgroups, other online sims) or do they have an offline providence of some sort?

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by HundertneunGustav

easy online = new pilots?
are we losing?
the online arguments are okay.
but if we discuss "pilot losses" then one question must also be asked: where are these new pilots recruited from?
online in some sort (forums, mail, newsgroups, other online sims) or do they have an offline providence of some sort?

A lot of new guys are coming from Steam's IL2 1946 and Cliffs Of Dover.

Also, especially on a few squads I speak with, one guy tries it and tells his friends etc etc.

[HundertneunGustav]

4 new members of the SAS have discovered how to fly a "tiger moth" on my desktop... two months ago.

2 of them never considered flying a plane before at all - to them, they were just flying buses with toilets and stewardesses.

Their luck - Monday the youngest of them, 11 years old, beat all of the others: he was the first to be able to take off, place a set of rockets on target and land properly.

Full switch, in a T-6 Texan. It lasted no more than ten minutes, but the Kid was exhausted after that. X-52 and TrackIR... sure got his brain heated up. The others are soon to follow.

they felt the pressure, and are sending me UP/DBW tracks everyday.

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

The sim is modded and has been that way for at least the past 5 years, and will be that way from here on out therefore to even debate mods is a waste of time.

Well Bearcat then why don't you take that advice and quit participating in something foolish? Debating it? I guess you have to here because you can not BAN people here for starting threads that have critical discussion on the subject like you can at the UBI General Discussion Forum huh? That is why I am banned from the UBI forum. That is what Hitler and other Dictator's do to those with critical opinions who want to practice free speech, and it has been your choice to follow their practices......

It is worth my time to try to make sure people see my point of view, which has always been that the negative impact that non-official mods have had on the IL2 Community and the IL2 sim itself makes them not worth spending time on except for those with self-serving motives.

To some people IL2 Sturmovik is a historical flight sim, to others it is a game, to some it is a social network, and to others who enjoy making mods it is a hobby. That is all fine because IL2 can be all those things, but at times in the past members of some of those groups have put their interests forward at the expense of others.

I was just reading a statement in another thread a modder made about decreasing the armor of tanks from their historical value in UP to "maintain game balance". That is a simple personal judgement call they have made there that can not be switched off by those flying UP. This is just like WD's big tirade about how HE thinks aircraft should overheat and his personal efforts to revert the overheating back to 4.10.

True, even the official version of IL2 is a judgement call, but it is an official judgement call by it's creators or those given the authority to do so, it is as good or better a judgement call than any others out there, and it is the most important to rally around.

For five years Bearcat you have tirelessly put energy into promoting mods on the UBI forum and you have tirelessly suppressed naysayers to serve your special interest. That is odd behavior for someone who considers it a waste of time huh?