Top speed Bf109G6 late vs La5FN @7000m

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by IceFire

If you can add upwards of 3-5mph to the top speed of an aircraft just by polishing the leading edges and other aerodynamic surfaces (see RAF V-1 chasers), then... 150 kg and the gun bulges on a 109G-6 are more than likely to cause some significant differences.

Even removing roundels made a difference on Spitfires.

Note the 150kg figure I quoted was just what I vaguely remembered reading some time ago. It might have been 50kg or 200kg. The G6 was definitely significantly heavier than the G2 but someone would need to look up wartime documentation to confirm the actual weight difference.

Its also important to remember the extra weight was in nose guns canopy and instruments so most of it was forward.

[schnorchel]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Disagree.

Just did some tests cause i didn't believe it.

100% fuel, rads closed, Smolensk, La5f and Bf109G6 late, Stock 4.10.1. Speeds attained by getting to altitude and then accelerated up to top speed and holding for a min.

Here's the il2 compare data,



Bf109G6 late,



La5f



Both within a few of the il2 data, probably cause i used smolensk rather than crimea, but there still relative to each other.



Probably, even things like a bullrt proof windscreen shave of 3-4 mph, 150 kg's is 2 light adults.....

fruitbat,
you get similar result as mine. but what I said is the max speed that both plane can get without engine overheat.
I would like to say such Max speed is more useful in the combat. for sure G6 can get the top speed about 630km/h in few mintes. but after that she needs rad opena and throttle back. only 603 km/h she can get without overheat. but L5f can get 613-614km/h and never overheat with 110% throttle and Rad closed. such huge advantage cannot be ignored.

[WTE_Galway]

Overheating in older versions of IL2 was never a big issue as you got 6 minutes in overheat before damage occurred. Also any time you went out of overheat, even for a few seconds, the timer was reset and you got another 6 minutes before damage.

I recall being told the latest patch has changed that but I haven't tried it out.

[EAF331 Starfire]

Originally Posted by fruitbat

Besides in rl you'd of preferred the 109 since it didn't have a habit of giving the pilot poisonous fumes to breath. I guess you want that modelled?

I might sound a bit mad, but I would really like all of our a/c modelled with the bad habits. Pilots might think twice before picking an aircraft.
The performace of an aircraft should be judged as a whole. Not just turnradious or speed, but reliability.

It seems to be possible. We have it in the I-16 where there are a random chance of ending up with a binocular sight instead of a reflectorsight.


I used to love the Ki84, but after having read about it I hardly fly it anymore.
It have all the advantages and none of the vices in IL-2.

The example that the US recieved after the war for evaluation was a prestine example. Intelligence gathered tells another story. A lot of a/c was lost to hydralic and engine failures. The a/c was often delivered without armourplating for the pilot.

[fruitbat]

Originally Posted by schnorchel

fruitbat,
you get similar result as mine. but what I said is the max speed that both plane can get without engine overheat.
I would like to say such Max speed is more useful in the combat. for sure G6 can get the top speed about 630km/h in few mintes. but after that she needs rad opena and throttle back. only 603 km/h she can get without overheat. but L5f can get 613-614km/h and never overheat with 110% throttle and Rad closed. such huge advantage cannot be ignored.

Ok, i see what you mean by 'max speed', but this is only ever relevant if you running away.....

If the la5 is behind you at that height, then,

1) you've done something bad already (don't we all from time to time).

2) the la5f is a pretty good plane, the 109 g6late isn't particularly.

However, you can still easily get away from an la5f in a 109g6late at that height. Run full power to get a bit of separation, then shallow dive, the 109 can dive up to speeds of 850kph before breaking up, the la5f 710kph. Run for home, call for help, fight another day when you have the advantage.

I don't know why you think that the 109g6 should be able to turn the tables on a la5f if i the la5f is behind, if the pilots are equal the plane being chased needs a substantial advantage to reverse the roles. 10kph either way is nothing, pilot error can make more difference.

Besides they're changing all the overheat stuff in 4.11 so we'll what's what then.

Some people such as myself always thought it was a joke that you could run around in a 109 at 103% power rads open all day long.......

10kmh is not a huge advantage either.......

[koivis]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Overheating in older versions of IL2 was never a big issue as you got 6 minutes in overheat before damage occurred. Also any time you went out of overheat, even for a few seconds, the timer was reset and you got another 6 minutes before damage.

I recall being told the latest patch has changed that but I haven't tried it out.

Actually, the time varies from plane to plane and is between 1 and 10 minutes. The opposite end being the MiG-3 and most US radial engine planes. This being said, this is still very much the way it works (as of 4.10.1m). The only addition in 4.10 is the small random reliability feature. For example, last week in Il-2 Air Racing this feature hit me twice. First, with Pe-2 I certainly returned to "engine: normal" within the time, and just after the next overheat message, the left engine "fried". In the LaGG-3 race, my engine fried right after start, no overheat message ever appeared.

Also, mostly because of this feature, the fastest way to get from point a to b, is not avoiding the overheat message. Just as WTE_Galway said, you have to cool the engine at lower power, and when returning to normal, put it back to full power... and repeat.

The 4.11 patch, however, will completely remove the concept of "overheat time". Instead, the condition of the engine will depend on the various temperatures (cylinder, oil, water).

[TinyTim]

Originally Posted by schnorchel

fruitbat,
for sure G6 can get the top speed about 630km/h in few mintes. but after that she needs rad opena and throttle back. only 603 km/h she can get without overheat. but L5f can get 613-614km/h and never overheat with 110% throttle and Rad closed. such huge advantage cannot be ignored.

Why not? Any supporting evidence that this is not how it should be? Are you implying both planes should have identical overheating characteristics (despite having vastly different engines let alone cooling systems)?

Don't get me wrong but this is like saying: "Ki-27 can turn much tighter than P-47, such huge advantage cannot be ignored."

[jameson]

L5f's never overheat in RL with rads shut and throttle at 110%?

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by koivis

Actually, the time varies from plane to plane and is between 1 and 10 minutes. The opposite end being the MiG-3 and most US radial engine planes. This being said, this is still very much the way it works (as of 4.10.1m). The only addition in 4.10 is the small random reliability feature. For example, last week in Il-2 Air Racing this feature hit me twice. First, with Pe-2 I certainly returned to "engine: normal" within the time, and just after the next overheat message, the left engine "fried". In the LaGG-3 race, my engine fried right after start, no overheat message ever appeared.

Also, mostly because of this feature, the fastest way to get from point a to b, is not avoiding the overheat message. Just as WTE_Galway said, you have to cool the engine at lower power, and when returning to normal, put it back to full power... and repeat.

The 4.11 patch, however, will completely remove the concept of "overheat time". Instead, the condition of the engine will depend on the various temperatures (cylinder, oil, water).

Interesting.

yeah ... the 6 minutes was relating to the 109 which seemed to go roughly 6 minutes in overheat before damage occurred.

Did the Mig 3 really only last 1 minute in overheat ? That would be really annoying.

Naturally the whole thing is rather simplified. In real life the 1710 Allisons in the p38 fried the turbochargers well before engine overheat occurred for example. However there is a limit to how much detail its practical to model into a game.

[schnorchel]

Originally Posted by TinyTim

Why not? Any supporting evidence that this is not how it should be? Are you implying both planes should have identical overheating characteristics (despite having vastly different engines let alone cooling systems)?

Don't get me wrong but this is like saying: "Ki-27 can turn much tighter than P-47, such huge advantage cannot be ignored."

Obviously you get wrong by yourself here, Ki-27 and P47 are not the same era plane. only idi@t could come up with such fool!sh idea.

Beside I really want some one could shows me some evident can prove that La5f and la5fn never overheat. I am curious that why russians do not increase the power of engine further if it does not overheat at all?