The Crystal Ball

[Sven]

I just want to report in that with my 'medium' system I'm running Cliffs of Dover just fine, without any crashes or stutters and decent framerate ( ~ 30 - 35 or so )



My ingame settings are on normal/high. Everything from shadows,plane details damage ect. on high, but land detail is on normal.

I don't fly over london often as I'm a fighter but over the English coastal airfields and over the German fields in France my game is keeping up good. An increase in FPS is always welcome of course! But people claiming that this game is utterly broken can't be right.

[Ataros]

No quick return on $50 investment? Of cause it is a tragedy!
...if you live in Africa, Afghanistan or maybe Eastern Europe?

No candies now but only in 1-2 years? WTF! I can not handle it like a man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YQpbzQ6gzs

PS. BTW BF3 crashes more often than CloD on more systems (e.g. factory overclocked 560ti anyone?) and not compatible with more software like OSD displaying one. Origin disconnects players from servers more often than Steam. Facts learned form reading Battlelog support forums searching for crash solutions. BF3 is more expensive than CloD, had a much better budget and is still better designed than MW3 in spite of all the problems (which also means that MW3 is much worse investment than CloD was). We have to switch to consoles if we are not prepared to happily wait for a long-long time till alpha-beta releases are fixed. So called Permanent Beta is a new industry trend.

Why is a guy posting here who hasn't even been bothered to purchase the game, surely his opinion is worth nothing??

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Ataros

No quick return on $50 investment? Of cause it is a tragedy!
...if you live in Africa, Afghanistan or maybe Eastern Europe?

No candies now but only in 1-2 years? WTF! I can not handle it like a man!

PS. BTW BF3 crashes more often than CloD on more systems (e.g. factory overclocked 560ti anyone?) and not compatible with more software like OSD displaying one. Origin disconnects players from servers more often than Steam. Facts learned form reading Battlelog support forums searching for crash solutions. BF3 is more expensive than CloD, had a much better budget and is still better designed than MW3 in spite of all the problems (which also means that MW3 is much worse investment than CloD was). We have to switch to consoles if we are not prepared to happily wait for a long-long time till alpha-beta releases are fixed. So called Permanent Beta is a new industry trend.

Excellent post Ataros. I subscribe to the permanent beta concept. But ... it has to be declared as a Beta, otherwise it's simply a lie to raise money to allow (hopefully) to correct the bugs. Another kind of business, it looks to me.

"If something is worth doing, it is worth doing badly"

Insuber

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by Insuber

But ... it has to be declared as a Beta, otherwise it's simply a lie to raise money to allow (hopefully) to correct the bugs.

I agree that it has to, but thinking realistically how can it be even possible in the real world? Luthier - 1C, Oleg - 1C, 1C - UBI contracts all have/had non-disclosure clauses. Luthier mentioned in March or April something like please do not ask me questions answering which would get me fired the next morning. Yes, theoretically UBI could announce it as beta but we do not know if retailers or Steam would accept a beta. Thus it probably was a "stop-loss" decision to release it as it is (having an alternative to shut the project down completely).

My understanding is that new engine with too many features, too much detail and new technology exponentially increased workload and required resources which was not accounted for because no one attempted similar titanic projects in the past. (Think about why none of studios in more technologically and financially developed western countries never created anything comparable in complexity and detail in air- or even land- or sea-sims.)

Oleg accepted that he made several mistakes in the beginning of development trying to make a perfect product.

There is nothing we can do about this reality besides investing more money in MG, or applying for job with MG if we are good, or advertising CloD to friends and online buddies on other forums, or encouraging the team to overcome difficulties with our support, trust, positive and constructive attitude on the forums. Luthier said in March that they need our support and trust to break through (as they have to fight for continuation of financing by publishers I think. Oleg mentioned on his Youtube channel last spring just after the release "... if they allow the team to finish...") .

Psychologically people often feel better when publicly blaming others, busting and bitching. Internet forums is a perfect place for this. People are not stupid not to realise that their bitching discourages the team, newcomers and even investors/publishers who read these forums, therefore harming further development of the product, but keep doing it because it makes them feel better. Perfectly understandable. I did it several times on sukhoi.ru forums too.

PS. If you want continued support for the series, please help the devs every day in proving to publishers that this is a great product worth continuing investing. If you do not what further development but just a revenge you can do the opposite and be happy when the project is shut down coming here to say "I told you that it was crap!".

[kendo65]

Good post Ataros.

[robtek]

Well said, Ataros!

[BPickles]

Originally Posted by Ataros

PS. If you want continued support for the series, please help the devs every day in proving to publishers that this is a great product worth continuing investing. If you do not what further development but just a revenge you can do the opposite and be happy when the project is shut down coming here to say "I told you that it was crap!".

While i agree on the rest of your post whole heatedly the quoted bit i think is obscure and I cant agree, low market sales stops the game from being supported. The game having such a slow fix rate keeps the sales low, thus less funding from publishers, resulting in the demise of a game.

How exactly do you recommend we prove to the publishers this product is great. The Publishers don't care if this game is any good they just care for getting the investment back.

I've bought this game twice and recommended it to 3 friends who bough it too, short of that I'm not sure what you expect people to do.
The responsibility of this has always been on MG and will always been on MG to make things better, and that's what they pay their employees to do.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Ataros

I agree that it has to, but thinking realistically how can it be even possible in the real world? Luthier - 1C, Oleg - 1C, 1C - UBI contracts all have/had non-disclosure clauses. Luthier mentioned in March or April something like please do not ask me questions answering which would get me fired the next morning. Yes, theoretically UBI could announce it as beta but we do not know if retailers or Steam would accept a beta. Thus it probably was a "stop-loss" decision to release it as it is (having an alternative to shut the project down completely).

My understanding is that new engine with too many features, too much detail and new technology exponentially increased workload and required resources which was not accounted for because no one attempted similar titanic projects in the past. (Think about why none of studios in more technologically and financially developed western countries never created anything comparable in complexity and detail in air- or even land- or sea-sims.)

Oleg accepted that he made several mistakes in the beginning of development trying to make a perfect product.

There is nothing we can do about this reality besides investing more money in MG, or applying for job with MG if we are good, or advertising CloD to friends and online buddies on other forums, or encouraging the team to overcome difficulties with our support, trust, positive and constructive attitude on the forums. Luthier said in March that they need our support and trust to break through (as they have to fight for continuation of financing by publishers I think. Oleg mentioned on his Youtube channel last spring just after the release "... if they allow the team to finish...") .

Psychologically people often feel better when publicly blaming others, busting and bitching. Internet forums is a perfect place for this. People are not stupid not to realise that their bitching discourages the team, newcomers and even investors/publishers who read these forums, therefore harming further development of the product, but keep doing it because it makes them feel better. Perfectly understandable. I did it several times on sukhoi.ru forums too.

PS. If you want continued support for the series, please help the devs every day in proving to publishers that this is a great product worth continuing investing. If you do not what further development but just a revenge you can do the opposite and be happy when the project is shut down coming here to say "I told you that it was crap!".

Ataros, first of all, let me say that your post is perfect for eloquence and clarity. Then, to confort my words, I'm the guy who last week purchased 35 USD of RoF planes, despite that I never fly RoF. It was just because Jason wrote me a mail asking for financial help to continue the development next year. He deserves it, so I forked out my hard earned. And I'm not alone.
I will continue to do the same with CloD, and buy whatever they sell, but ... If the relationship changes from customer of a finished product, to sponsor/financer/promoter of a promising project, then the consequences must be assumed by both parties.
Among those consequences, communication and transparency are paramount. The sponsors have right as a minimum to a certain clarity on the plans and on the status of the works. More communication, to keep motivation and build trust. This is not the case today.
Hopefully the arrival of B6 in this forum will cover for this lack and reconstitute some of the lost trust.

Have a great day,
Insuber

PS: as far as promoting, actually I am the only one of my squad flying regularly CloD in ATAG, and my squad mates look at me like a bit eccentric pilot ...

[klem]

Good post Ataros.

While Sales or potential Sales might be the thing that finally decides 'live or die' we can at least, on these forums, support and encourage the project to make it clear to the distributor that there is a market for it which will grow once the problems are sorted out. We all know guys that are holding back until they are. And we can support the devs who, I believe, have more than just the 1C/Ubi investment at heart. Their own enthusiasm for the project must add something to their pay.