Is the comunity manager coming in ?

[Insuber]

Alpha - First of all, thank you for your free moderators work. Then, let me say that the best way to improve a troubled relationship is to open more the communication, increase transparency, set a standard of values, behavior and development and keep to it. I've never seen any improvement by merely cutting the dialogue, especially with your faithful customers.

Also, this forum has been always helpful and constructive when asked so by the devs, with info, data, documents, feedbacks and lists of bugs, not to mention the great how-tos done by simple users. On the other side of the fence, we have read many vain promises by the devs, such as a community manager, or test data of the gfx engine, and what is worse is that these unfulfilled promises were often spontaneous and unsolicited.

As a last comment, I'm aware that a widespread marketing theory blames the customers for a defective product, but its adepts normally last very little on the market.

cheers.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Are you serious ??

They have been called everything from thieves and liars to personal insults and being ridiculed at this forum.

So you're basically saying, in Russian, those insults sound more polite?

[Orpheus]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Are you serious ??

They have been called everything from thieves and liars to personal insults and being ridiculed at this forum.

You wonder why they stick to a native language forum for communication , its a no brainer for me !!

Anyway they seem to be getting on great at the other forum with its members giving good support and development feedback, why you think this is a bad thing I have no idea, they are getting the help they need there.

.

Frankly, this is the attitude that keeps me from posting here anymore. They wouldn't get such a negative reaction on this forum if they took the time to interact properly, as they do on sukhoi.ru.

Language has nothing to do with it - if you sell a product internationally, you are expected to provide support internationally. Restricting your updates to a Russian forum upsets the international community using this forum, many of whom do not use English as their first language either. If they actually interacted properly here (as Luthier has shown he is capable of doing) and did it regularly, not just when they feel like it, they would generate far more good will and would get just as much 'help' as they are getting on the russian forum.

Silence breeds the assumption of contempt; this is where the insults start. Ali makes a valid point: they sold a game in a very poor state, as we all know, and have since been very sparing with the information they provide. We do trust that work is being done, and we see it in the patches, but it's the month or more of silence in between that gets people's backs up.

Communication is important. 4x devs Kerberos just released a game in as bad a state as CloD was at release, but they have communicated constantly on their forums, apologised, offered various DLC incentives alongside a full and open refund system and even given a free copy of their previous game to buyers willing to wait for the new product to be fixed. As a result, they have retained a lot more goodwill (and sales, for that matter).

Would it really be so difficult for the Russian community manager to post to two websites instead of one? The fact that people are clamouring for even a google-translated version (and scouring sukhoi.ru themselves) should tell you something: they don't care if it's poor translated Engrish, they just want to know what's going on.

You can bluster all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a poor way to conduct business, and as long as they continue in this fashion they will generate insults and invective. A little talk goes a long way sometimes, and Luthier's updates are a great start - but I'd wager the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

The bare minimum isn't enough anymore, and by acting like this, they ignore and isolate over half their (incredibly dedicated) fanbase, when that fanbase could be helping them instead. What a waste, all for the want of a weekly update and some community involvement.

[JG52Uther]

Sorry Swiss, editing and posting at the same time!

I think you are right, the insults are probably jumped on and moderated quickly. Seems to work though doesn't it...

[swiss]

Man, dont delete your posts.


original was:

I doubt it(or they delete them).

Anyway, If you call that zensorship working, well then, so was the udssr.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

Frankly, this is the attitude that keeps me from posting here anymore. They wouldn't get such a negative reaction on this forum if they took the time to interact properly, as they do on sukhoi.ru.

Language has nothing to do with it - if you sell a product internationally, you are expected to provide support internationally. Restricting your updates to a Russian forum upsets the international community using this forum, many of whom do not use English as their first language either. If they actually interacted properly here (as Luthier has shown he is capable of doing) and did it regularly, not just when they feel like it, they would generate far more good will and would get just as much 'help' as they are getting on the russian forum.

Silence breeds the assumption of contempt; this is where the insults start. Ali makes a valid point: they sold a game in a very poor state, as we all know, and have since been very sparing with the information they provide. We do trust that work is being done, and we see it in the patches, but it's the month or more of silence in between that gets people's backs up.

Communication is important. 4x devs Kerberos just released a game in as bad a state as CloD was at release, but they have communicated constantly on their forums, apologised, offered various DLC incentives alongside a full and open refund system and even given a free copy of their previous game to buyers willing to wait for the new product to be fixed. As a result, they have retained a lot more goodwill (and sales, for that matter).

Would it really be so difficult for the Russian community manager to post to two websites instead of one? The fact that people are clamouring for even a google-translated version (and scouring sukhoi.ru themselves) should tell you something: they don't care if it's poor translated Engrish, they just want to know what's going on.

You can bluster all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a poor way to conduct business, and as long as they continue in this fashion they will generate insults and invective. A little talk goes a long way sometimes, and Luthier's updates are a great start - but I'd wager the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

The bare minimum isn't enough anymore, and by acting like this, they ignore and isolate over half their (incredibly dedicated) fanbase, when that fanbase could be helping them instead. What a waste, all for the want of a weekly update and some community involvement.

Well said mate!

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

Frankly, this is the attitude that keeps me from posting here anymore. They wouldn't get such a negative reaction on this forum if they took the time to interact properly, as they do on sukhoi.ru.

Language has nothing to do with it - if you sell a product internationally, you are expected to provide support internationally. Restricting your updates to a Russian forum upsets the international community using this forum, many of whom do not use English as their first language either. If they actually interacted properly here (as Luthier has shown he is capable of doing) and did it regularly, not just when they feel like it, they would generate far more good will and would get just as much 'help' as they are getting on the russian forum.

Silence breeds the assumption of contempt; this is where the insults start. Ali makes a valid point: they sold a game in a very poor state, as we all know, and have since been very sparing with the information they provide. We do trust that work is being done, and we see it in the patches, but it's the month or more of silence in between that gets people's backs up.

Communication is important. 4x devs Kerberos just released a game in as bad a state as CloD was at release, but they have communicated constantly on their forums, apologised, offered various DLC incentives alongside a full and open refund system and even given a free copy of their previous game to buyers willing to wait for the new product to be fixed. As a result, they have retained a lot more goodwill (and sales, for that matter).

Would it really be so difficult for the Russian community manager to post to two websites instead of one? The fact that people are clamouring for even a google-translated version (and scouring sukhoi.ru themselves) should tell you something: they don't care if it's poor translated Engrish, they just want to know what's going on.

You can bluster all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a poor way to conduct business, and as long as they continue in this fashion they will generate insults and invective. A little talk goes a long way sometimes, and Luthier's updates are a great start - but I'd wager the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

The bare minimum isn't enough anymore, and by acting like this, they ignore and isolate over half their (incredibly dedicated) fanbase, when that fanbase could be helping them instead. What a waste, all for the want of a weekly update and some community involvement.

This shows you have not read or understood anything I posted.

We know the state of the game in the beginning ....... that's history but as things move forwards people like to still go back and use this old whine.

The Russian community manager has already explained why he wont be posting here.

Oleg gave up posting updates ............ in this words,

"dammed if I do and dammed if I don't"

In the end he didn't.

The constant bashing does have an affect, if they get a better response elsewhere and can use that to move forwards then where's the problem.

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by Orpheus

the reason the fellows at Sukhoi.ru are so helpful is that they actually feel involved, while over here we just wait to be thrown a bone.

+1 . You speak the truth, pal.

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

I really don't see the fuss being made here its just a Community manager being used to communicate in Russian on a Russian forum,
you are not loosing out on anything thing here nothings being taken away.
.

You must be the only one then. It is easy to understand, THESE are 1C company forums, not Su.ru as far as I know, and here is where customers expect feedback from the company which is actually selling the product they bought, full stop.

It is not as difficult to understand that Microsoft corporate communications to their customers are made on Microsoft's forums or portals not on Apple's, is it?. (or at least there is where Microsoft customers go when looking for Microsoft's products related info, they must have an important reason to do so I guess).

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

I don't think you would find those insults at sukhoi.ru.

Maybe they know more than us... maybe Ilya told them at the release time that the game was really incomplete and an Alpha version. Maybe they bought it as an investment.

Instead here "somebody" kept saying that the game was great, that in a pair of month were would be thousand player online. Of course many of us could not really trust him. It was fair to think about receiving a Beta version, no problem here for most of us fanboys... BUT not a game of which its main cores are still under full development (are graphic engine and sound engine main cores in a sim? they are not being fixed, they are under development!).

Look, I don't blame Luthier. IMO he's a victim since he's developing this sim because he's an fanboy too. I'm sure the state of thing was tragic when he took the lead on the studio. I totally blame the former project manager of CloD.

I only can blame him about not telling us the real state of the game before the release. I would have helped him gladly.

Look at RoF: they have finantial issues, asked for an help and people are buying planes even if they don't fly with their simulator (Insuber is one of this).

[Insuber]

Alpha, when you blame us for "insulting" the devs, who in retaliation are not willing to communicate with us, while the Russian users are so polite and gentle and helpful to deserve a community manager, are you speaking on the basis of solid info or you are just reading this interesting story into your personal crystal ball ?