Sure hope Oleg gets with the program

[PBNA-Boosher]

Mondo, Nearmiss, I agree with you, but it's not just Bush. Both the USA and Russia have been testing each other for a very long time now. Russia's been sending out Tu-95 patrols which supposedly keep violating political airspace. Most recently a Tu-95 was turned back from Japan.

Now, putting missiles in Poland is a pretty hefty thing to do, much heftier than sending recon patrols (that is, if the 'Bears" aren't loaded) over other countries, but each country is stoking the fires each way it knows how. We're all to blame.
Just hang on a few more months. The Bush Dynasty is almost over and everyone can go take their little naps. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter who we elect, if you hate America now you'll hate America after November. All I ask is that, while you may hate the policy, don't hate on the people. We're more alike than you may realize.

[nearmiss]

Don't make light of this. Two Russian bombers flew over a US Carrier the other day in a provocative manner. One did a fly over at abour 2,000 feet. Those kinds of behaviour are not good and are a bad sign of things to come.
I'm just hoping there will be no more incidents either way.

It's really all about politics isn't it? I mean we've had a great time on the Ubi boards and forums for the past 5+ years. Personally, I wouldn't want to alienenate myself with any readers. I have enjoyed reading other's opinions and how they think about the war and all. You could say, I just want to enjoy everyone and appreciate freedom to discuss things. I know we don't all see things the same way, but that is the cool part.

Someone kinda ragged on me above about being ignorant of the Russia role in the War. When we studied World History it was about the old world kinda stuff, not very much about WW2 and certainly nothing focused on Russia. WHen I was in college I took American History, and it naturally had more to do with things American. If I had been more into history of other countries it would certainly be different. Heck, like most students I took the required courses and took electives I was interested to take.

I don't know about "defensive missiles" in Poland, but I kinda got the idea it has more to do with protecting European countries from their own laid back attitudes of nuclear proliferation in Iran, Pakistan,etc. You make what you want about it, but Europeans ignoring Iran and Al Queda is a big mistake. The European appeasement strategy will not work long term with muslim extremists. Those dudes don't just hate Christians, they hate anyone that is not muslim. America has been taking care of Europe for 100+ years because of their own laid back attitudes about doing nothing.

If the Russia really believed America wanted to attack Russia why the heck didn't America do it after breaking the cold war. I'll tell you why, Americans don't want a war with Russia.

We wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan right now if the extremists hadn't cost America billion of dollars and killed thousands of our people. People say the war is wrong, but they are ignoring the "FACT" extremists have and continue to kill American troops in Iraq. Americans are dying, and that's a fact. The extremists want to kill Americans and Iraq is their killing field.

Those extremists are not just Iraqi, they are from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all over the middle east. America has provided a venue for their murder, which is bad... but who is better able to deal with the carnage than Americas soldiers.

Regardless, I may have gotten off the side abit in this posting. I sure don't want issues with Russians who I've come think of as "FRIENDS". I enjoy the IL2 and appreciate the accomplishments of Oleg and Soviet aviation. I don't want to go back to "distrust the Russians" and other negative thinking.

Currently, I'm interested for Oleg to finish his new work so we can all enjoy it. I would hate it, if the product was locked out of American markets. Enemies don't have much patience for each other, nor do they do business.

its always been "We are good and right and they are all bad and wrong"....you must be retarded to believe in such things in 21st century...politics costs us too much lives here....the hell with that...btw, this is a sim forum...just a sim guys...

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

its always been "We are good and right and they are all bad and wrong"....you must be retarded to believe in such things in 21st century...politics costs us too much lives here....the hell with that...btw, this is a sim forum...just a sim guys...

Unfortunately that sentiment has always been the case, with ebbs and flows. Whats scares me is the bible belts (of all countries) are becoming stronger politically where that sentiment is very strong. All the world needs is countries lead by religious leaders with no tolerance of other peoples way of life. People havn't become any smarter so constantly repeating history is a cross we all have to bare.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

Don't make light of this. Two Russian bombers flew over a US Carrier the other day in a provocative manner. One did a fly over at abour 2,000 feet. Those kinds of behaviour are not good and are a bad sign of things to come.
I'm just hoping there will be no more incidents either way.

It's really all about politics isn't it? I mean we've had a great time on the Ubi boards and forums for the past 5+ years. Personally, I wouldn't want to alienenate myself with any readers. I have enjoyed reading other's opinions and how they think about the war and all. You could say, I just want to enjoy everyone and appreciate freedom to discuss things. I know we don't all see things the same way, but that is the cool part.

Someone kinda ragged on me above about being ignorant of the Russia role in the War. When we studied World History it was about the old world kinda stuff, not very much about WW2 and certainly nothing focused on Russia. WHen I was in college I took American History, and it naturally had more to do with things American. If I had been more into history of other countries it would certainly be different. Heck, like most students I took the required courses and took electives I was interested to take.

I don't know about "defensive missiles" in Poland, but I kinda got the idea it has more to do with protecting European countries from their own laid back attitudes of nuclear proliferation in Iran, Pakistan,etc. You make what you want about it, but Europeans ignoring Iran and Al Queda is a big mistake. The European appeasement strategy will not work long term with muslim extremists. Those dudes don't just hate Christians, they hate anyone that is not muslim. America has been taking care of Europe for 100+ years because of their own laid back attitudes about doing nothing.

If the Russia really believed America wanted to attack Russia why the heck didn't America do it after breaking the cold war. I'll tell you why, Americans don't want a war with Russia.

We wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan right now if the extremists hadn't cost America billion of dollars and killed thousands of our people. People say the war is wrong, but they are ignoring the "FACT" extremists have and continue to kill American troops in Iraq. Americans are dying, and that's a fact. The extremists want to kill Americans and Iraq is their killing field.

Those extremists are not just Iraqi, they are from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all over the middle east. America has provided a venue for their murder, which is bad... but who is better able to deal with the carnage than Americas soldiers.

Regardless, I may have gotten off the side abit in this posting. I sure don't want issues with Russians who I've come think of as "FRIENDS". I enjoy the IL2 and appreciate the accomplishments of Oleg and Soviet aviation. I don't want to go back to "distrust the Russians" and other negative thinking.

Currently, I'm interested for Oleg to finish his new work so we can all enjoy it. I would hate it, if the product was locked out of American markets. Enemies don't have much patience for each other, nor do they do business.

If the US concerns about extremist islam were troubling your administration so much, they would have done neither of the following:

1) Be allied with the countries that secretly fund these radicals (ie Saudi Arabia) while making up pretexts to attack non-democratic but nevertheless secular states like Iraq. If dictatorships bother them that much they shouldn't have installed so many of them in South America to begin with.

2) Create an environment for extremist islamic groups in the soft underbelly of Europe. Just so you know, both the Madrid and London bombings in recent years have been traced back to Bosnia and Kosovo.

It seems that radical Islam is bad when a close ally is threatened (ie Israel) but they don't really care when it happens on Russian soil or that of a traditional Russian ally, especially if it hinders the EU and Russia making energy deals because of the hotspot.

I'm not saying that anyone is innocent, i'm saying that everyone is guilty to an extent and that includes the US. And there's nothing that shows this more clearly than the western lack of consistency in their decisions. Sorry guys, but the king is naked.

As for the loss of life, it's sad no matter who it happens to. I don't care if he's a US soldier, a Palestinian boy, or an Iraqi insurgent (not all resistance in Iraq is fundamentalists, their country is occupied and they do what every free man would do). However, the "civilised" west thinks their lives are worth more and that's the foundation of all this. And my country is just as guilty as anyone else.

Just so you know, the terrorist attacks on US soil have claimed less civilian lives than the 70 day "humanitarian" bombing of Yugoslavia, but i remember all sorts of cheering going on back then for bombing people that have paid dearly in blood to back up the allies in both World Wars. There is a well documented case in WW2 of 600 downed airmen (mostly 15th AF) that were not only offered shelter in that country, but an airstrip was constructed and they were airlifted out during the course of a few days, all under risk of immense reprisals by the Wermacht.
Of course leaderships change, but if the US really were after a certain leader they could have assassinated/abducted him or bombed his residence unexpectedly and without going to war in '99. Instead, a leading USAF figure stated on a TV interview for a local documentary show that he wanted to "bomb that bridge the civilians were gathering on because they were defying our might and that's bad for our morale, but the French sadly vetoed it".

Sorry if i come across as overly anti-american, i'm not. I don't hate the people, but the truth is the truth and it's not only the politicians' fault, it's us who vote for them

[mondo]

Originally Posted by PBNA-Boosher

Mondo, Nearmiss, I agree with you, but it's not just Bush. Both the USA and Russia have been testing each other for a very long time now.

From the way I see it, all Russian reactions are down to the US pressing with the missile defense shield. Every time the US says its talked with a nation or struck a deal to put interceptor missiles in a northern European nation Russia reacts with some similar sabre rattling. Since Britain is now talking too we've seen flights by Bears over our shores and we probably have Russian nukes aimed at us again. Cheers USA.

[Bobb4]

Anyone that seriously believes that Russia is a major threat to world peace is crazy. The USA has firmly secured the mantel of world superpower!
However as they flounder in Iraq, blunder over Iran and quiver at the thought of North Korea one has to wonder if being such a great superpower is really worth the effort.
No one respects them, hardly anyone fears them and about the only thing they can do well is send us all back to the stone age if they wanted to with their nukes.
Not something I would like to be remembered for.
The problem with being at the top is everyone wants to take it away from you and unfortunately that is where the USA sits now.

People everywhere want peace, but few are prepared to pay the price for it. I do not know of a single religion that promotes war, yet we all fight on the side of God.

[StkNRdr]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

"I never Knew anything about the Russian war with Germany. It's just not discussed in the US, nor ever was."

Please be careful making such grand generalizations. I have been reading about and discussing the Eastern Front since the 1960s since age 13. I'm sure I am not alone.