Contact sight problem.. really something to patch!!

[CaptainDoggles]

It's not impossible to spot dots down below, it's just more difficult than in il2fb, where it was very easy.

One thing you all need to keep in mind is the size of the map. The flyable area in CLOD is enormous, and even with 40 players in it you aren't guaranteed to run into somebody.

On ATAG it's rare to see Red pilots above 3000m; most of them twirl around on the deck, low over their ships. I've had sorties where I was thinking "Where are all the RAF?" at about 4k over england. I would then descend and zoom in at the ground and see large furballs down in the sub-2000m area where I don't want to go.

You CAN spot contacts on the deck from 5k. I've done it. But it's really really hard.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by KeBrAnTo

+1 Absolutely agree. I don't want this to become a fly-at-6k-meters and wait for contacts trying to sneak flying by at 300 meters from the ground as in 1946, which is ridiculous.

Reread what the bolded part... in a full switch server do you really spot enemies with 5km+ of altitude difference?

Damn it.. I've stopped to fly in the most popular full-switch servers because the 95% of the pilots were flying at 100m an I could not see them from 3km (until I changed my resolution but then it's like fishing for me -> boring)...

Anyway do you agree then that planes 1km over your head should disappear too? the got camo! But still they are black dots...

Originally Posted by AMVI_Superblu

I better call this "Terrain Masking" or "Camo".
An object moving fast at an altitude let's say 500+ meters lower than you is pretty hard to see.
That was at the base of all low altitude - low drag profiles for A/G missions.
the REAL problem (IMO) is the contact disappearing after being seen, not the 'problem' of being unable to spot it at a lower altitude.

S!

Super, you are reasoning in a too much simplistic way.

Camos are effective if 100% of the requested conditions are present. Its' not like a plane gets painted and it becomes almost invisible.

I'm posting a document about aircraft camouflage: it's dated 1969 and it's sure that the explained techniques are more advanced than the WW2's ones.

Aircrafts are in "low visibility" mode (that's not 500m... it's visible at 1-2 miles on daylight) if they fly at the right altitude, if the sunlight (or moonlight) is the expected one, if there are clouds or not... and for the ground camo the plane HAVE to fly in the correct paths (the pilots have to know where to fly over)

Talking about Spitfires we have a brown-green camo who fly over the channel (blue-green) at every altitude, also provided with high visibility parts like the windshield (30 to 40 miles)... sure it has to be invisible! It can't be moderately visible (10 to 15 miles).

Here's the document:
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc...c=GetTRDoc.pdf

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Reread what the bolded part... in a full switch server do you really spot enemies with 5km+ of altitude difference?

In north Africa maps of course, and in the rest you can spot them always when flying over the sea, you see these unrealistic white/grey dots at 6k lol.

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Anyway do you agree then that planes 1km over your head should disappear too? the got camo! But still they are black dots...

No i don't but the further is the plane the more difficult is to spot it and at a certain distance human eye cannot spot anything sorry, if you want to consider this as a disappearing aircraft is up to you, unless off course you have better sight than a hawk which I don't think so.

[6S.Tamat]

Originally Posted by KeBrAnTo

The problem is when you' re on a plane EVERYTHING is in motion respect your position so I don't think you have a point to be honest. If you then add a background when you're looking from above it becomes even more difficult.

I think all ppl who think this way should make difference of what they would like to be and what really it is, sorry m8.

Luckily our brain is smarter than us.., cause you can see stuff in movement also when you are in movement: we are not talking of seeing the poles from a train, but seeing a car moving from another car moving.. the brain can see easily that, as can see easily aicraft moving from another aircraft: it is common sense.

the point whatever is that in the article that 6S.Manu put is pretty clear:


pag 7

High or highly visible: DAY 30 to 40 miles - NIGHT 8 to 10 miles
Moderate or moderately visible: DAY 10 to 15 miles - NIGHT 2 to 3 miles
Low or barely visible: DAY 1 to 2 miles - NIGHT 200 to 1000 yards


moreover in the other parts of the interesting article it practically says that is difficult to obtain the real low or barely visible condition because there should be the perfect camo on the perfect terrain (so spitfire on a grain field= bad) and because surfaces like plexiglass and glass are considered high visible, like i suppose the yellow nose of the emil.

@KeBrAnTo; i'm i blind one, but i can see an airplane also far away... so if an airplane disappear also at 5000 meters, and it is not that case, it is closer that happens, (i'm not talking of camo now) in normal conditions of weather and light it is not a good simulation..

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by KeBrAnTo

The problem is when you' re on a plane EVERYTHING is in motion respect your position so I don't think you have a point to be honest. If you then add a background when you're looking from above it becomes even more difficult.

I think all ppl who think this way should make difference of what they would like to be and what really it is, sorry m8.

Of course we are speaking about RELATIVE movement of a plane against the terrain/sky. The human eye can catch easily a movement, as said by Tamat, even if it's relative to the rest.

Have a look at Manu's last post, the US Navy study defines "moderate visibility" of a plane as 10-15 miles, and "high visibility" as 30-40 miles ... Sorry m8, we are far from that in this game.

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by Insuber

Of course we are speaking about RELATIVE movement of a plane against the terrain/sky. The human eye can catch easily a movement, as said by Tamat, even if it's relative to the rest.

Have a look at Manu's last post, the US Navy study defines "moderate visibility" of a plane as 10-15 miles, and "high visibility" as 30-40 miles ... Sorry m8, we are far from that in this game.

Well it seems that if US Navy says that must be true.

I cannot really believe that you think you can spot a10 meter long plane at a distance of 30-40 miles which in my own lang is 65-80 Km,

Listen, i live exactly at 25 miles of a 200 meters-high buildin,g and on the best westher conditions you can hardly spot it against the sky. Imagine trying to spot a 10 meter plane, lol

[FFCW_Urizen]

30-40 miles would be more in the range of 54 to 72 km .

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by KeBrAnTo

I cannot really believe that you think you can spot a10 meter long plane at a distance of 30-40 miles which in my own lang is 65-80 Km,

Listen, i live exactly at 25 miles of a 200 meters-high buildin,g and on the best westher conditions you can hardly spot it against the sky. Imagine trying to spot a 10 meter plane, lol

I don't think they are nautical miles (if they are then I missed it).. so in our countries it should be 50-65km.

Anyway how can be the windshield "high visible"? Try to guess...

[Insuber]

If the plane is a moving bright spot, reflecting sunlight at crepuscule against a darker sky, and the visibility is excellent, you can spot it easily at very long distances. It's a common experience. Everyone can spot a 10 m wide satellite at night or dusk ... Let me see, how is a satellite distant in your lang ...

[KeBrAnTo]

Originally Posted by FFCW_Urizen

30-40 miles would be more in the range of 54 to 72 km .

whatever,
didn' t grab the calc, it does the job for my purpose anyway