Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY - For 4.11

[ElAurens]

I wholeheartedly support anything to advance the representation of the air war over China.

From 1937 on it was an amazing theatre of operations.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

In Il2 tried them out and had to request the lights to be turned on 3 times during approach in Bf110, once they went out right as I was over the threshold. I doubt in the real world, that the ground crews would have killed the lights while the aircraft was on approach.

During wartime, especially when there were enemy planes about, landing lights were only turned on when the plane was on final approach and were killed as soon as the plane touched down. So, technically the landing light behavior in IL2 is realistic, if irritating.

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Another request, the landing light is non functional as it doesn't light up the ground, can this be fixed, maybe in the same way that flares and explosions cast light?

Landing lights were often hooded to the sides, so that they were only visible when the plane was on the correct approach. This was partially a navigation aide and partially another method of keeping the lights from being visible to every plane in the air. So, again, arguable realistic.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

As someone here has already said, gear dropping is a result of landing gear leg upper lock damage (which was holding the leg in retracted position). It has nothing to do with hydraulic system damage (or damage to any other system, used to operate the gear).

Damage to the gear lock could also explain a gear dropping, as could excessive G-loads or severed cables, but I still hold that the main reason that gears, flaps and other plane parts dropped when damaged was due to hydraulic failure. Obviously, though, it depends on the plane and in the heat of combat the exact cause was often impossible to figure out.

In some cases, however, damage to the hydraulic system is so obvious it has to be the cause for gear drop.

Example: Starting at 0:32 in this video, you can see a fire on the oleo struts of the Hurricane as the hydraulic fluid burns away. Fire is localized and burns out quickly once the fluid is gone. (Actual damage to the hydraulic lines/pump was probably earlier, since smoke from the area becomes visible at around 0:30.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aqJwHdMDK0

More examples of shot-up planes dropping landing gear in a fashion consistent with hydraulic failure (and video of the mod I mentioned):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvlG9fY9g2Q

[aquila26]

thanks Gitano

[Tempest123]

Landing lights were often hooded to the sides, so that they were only visible when the plane was on the correct approach. This was partially a navigation aide and partially another method of keeping the lights from being visible to every plane in the air. So, again, arguable realistic.

This is true for reducing side visibility from enemy aircraft during wartime, however the main function of a landing light is to light up the surface of runway on the final stages of approach and touchdown for depth perception. Having just recently flown IRL at night I can attest to the importance of a properly functioning landing light

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Damage to the gear lock could also explain a gear dropping, as could excessive G-loads or severed cables, but I still hold that the main reason that gears, flaps and other plane parts dropped when damaged was due to hydraulic failure.

All planes with retractable gear had 2 gear locks (one for each gear position) for each gear leg. And ONLY this locks were holding the gear in terminal positions, not hydraulic, or air pressure, or mechanical force from gear actuator (depending on how the gear was operated). The pressure was sent in the system ONLY when the gear was either retracted, or extended.
So, I repeat again: gear drop can be caused ONLY by lock damage.
However, it is quite possible, that hydraulic, or pneumatic lines, or whatever lines were used to operate gear could be damaged as well at hte same instance, as the locks, since they were usually located near the locks. Yet again, their damage is not related to the effect of gear drop.

PS Hydraulic fluid doesn't burn. The fire was probably from small fuel tanks, located on the front edge of Hurri wing. There is nothing in the video, that may hint, what caused the gear to extend.

PPS And after reading Hurri operating manual, I tend to believe, that in this particular case the pilot under attack occasionally engaged emergency gear down pedal, which releases the upper gear lock and lets gear to drop down under their own weight.

[Tempest123]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

All planes with retractable gear had 2 gear locks (one for each gear position) for each gear leg. And ONLY this locks were holding the gear in terminal positions, not hydraulic, or air pressure, or mechanical force from gear actuator (depending on how the gear was operated). The pressure was sent in the system ONLY when the gear was either retracted, or extended.
So, I repeat again: gear drop can be caused ONLY by lock damage.
However, it is quite possible, that hydraulic, or pneumatic lines, or whatever lines were used to operate gear could be damaged as well at hte same instance, as the locks, since they were usually located near the locks. Yet again, their damage is not related to the effect of gear drop.

PS Hydraulic fluid doesn't burn. The fire was probably from small fuel tanks, located on the front edge of Hurri wing. There is nothing in the video, that may hint, what caused the gear to extend.

PPS And after reading Hurri operating manual, I tend to believe, that in this particular case the pilot under attack occasionally engaged emergency gear down pedal, which releases the upper gear lock and lets gear to drop down under their own weight.

+1 for this, and if a hydraulic line was hit, but the up-lock was not, the gear could often be extended to engage the down-lock position via the aforementioned emergency system, where the pilot could extend the gear by using gravity, a hand crank or other "blow down" system. Of course if the gear falls out but doesn't lock down, you'll have a bad situation. It would be neat to see some of this in Il2, but I think there would be many other systems that would need to be modeled.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Additionally a lucky hit could inflict the electric/hydraulic system in a way, that the gear lowers normally but unintended, just as if the pilot would have pushed the lever.

"So always do aim with your 20mm for that little switcher on the left panel!"

[Tempest123]

I always aim for the altimeter

[Lagarto]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Additionally a lucky hit could inflict the electric/hydraulic system in a way, that the gear lowers normally but unintended, just as if the pilot would have pushed the lever.

"So always do aim with your 20mm for that little switcher on the left panel!"

Soo... did we inspire DT's interest in the issue?