COOP play/FMB

[furbs]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I think that once someone comes up with an all-in-one c# module that includes statistics tracking of various parameters (kills/losses of aircraft, convoys, vehicles, etc) and uses them to influence other parameters (like moving front markers, aircraft/fuel/ammo loadout availability), there will be no more need for coops at all.

There are already various people working on parts of this and since it's a community effort with shared code, i don't think it will be long before we see this.

As for the participants, it's been possible since release to spawn a full flight of AI aircraft and have other players spawn into them (the reason you don't see it is that most servers run scripts that "clean up" AI aircraft), since the last patch it's also possible to give your flight waypoints while inside the game.

In other words, in a few months we'll have customized dynamic campaign engines running 24/7 on every server. Then, each group of players will be deciding how to better influence the outcome for their team, spawn a group of aircraft for themselves, draw up a flight plan while their engines are warming up and fly the mission.

Instead of the tedious process of fly coop, collect stats, generate next mission, host and fly next mission, repeat, it will all be done without ever leaving the server, in a persistent sandbox-type environment where the player's choice matters and where it's possible to surprise your opponents instead of having to start sorties at the exact same time. It will bring the together the teamwork of Coops with the fluidity of DF mode and the realism of mission objectives found in well done offline campaigns, so i really doubt we'll need any of the old MP modes when the new one reaches the point where it can combine and supersede all of them at the same time.

After all, Coop mode was the direct consequence of a limitation in the early IL2 versions (it was impossible to have moving AI in a sandbox-type DF server), now that the limitation is lifted there's no need to keep sticking to old habits for old habits sake alone. I'm not one who usually supports doing away with old habits just for the sake of it either, but in this case i really believe the advantages are decisive.

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....i ran a sqd for about a year,

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by furbs

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?

+1 we NEED COOP its perfect for training...

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by furbs

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?

You can make airstarts in the so-called "DF maps". You can play with the AI. You can play against the AI.

You can simply load a new mission. People act like there's no FMB in this game. There is. You can script bombers to attack a base, you can script all sorts of things.

You had 50 different training missions? Ok so what's stopping you from making 50 different training missions and simply loading the one you want?

Oh, that's right, people are threatened by change.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

You can make airstarts in the so-called "DF maps". You can play with the AI. You can play against the AI.

You can simply load a new mission. People act like there's no FMB in this game. There is. You can script bombers to attack a base, you can script all sorts of things.

You had 50 different training missions? Ok so what's stopping you from making 50 different training missions and simply loading the one you want?

Oh, that's right, people are threatened by change.

Ok, how do all 10 guys flying 5 vs 5 start together, head to head, a mile apart at 20,000 ft? with a DF map?

[furbs]

And what wrong with having both? ive never said lets get rid of DFs, we need both.

[furbs]

Or, to make things as simple and easy as IL2, have CO-OPs ?

try getting 10 guys to "jump in" at the right time....good luck with that, been there, done it.....doesnt work.

[furbs]

So we add the screen for readying up,...and what have we got?

sorry yellownet, just read your post.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by furbs

Blackdog, sorry mate your wrong. we need CO-OPs for training....i ran a sqd for about a year,

I dont know if you have taken part in any sqd training, but if you have 10 guys on a Thursday night, you have 2 maybe 3 hours to train.

You dont want to spend half of that time taking off and forming up and then flying to a target, what you want is to AIR START with your guys and do the training.

Then if something isn't right you can start again within 5 mins.

Or start again and try something new...

Or load up and try it from the defenders prospective...

Or again load up and split the team and fly attackers and defenders....

play with AI, play against the AI....

then all swap into bombers for a laugh and bomb the battleships with the AI defending...another mission ready to go.....click load mission....planes all set ....loadouts all right...click fly.....10 mins to target...

Then after play a 5 on 5, change 6 on 4, change plane sets, change maps...you understand?

someone says "lets do the RAF getting bounced at takeoff mission!" ok....click...load mission...all planes and loadouts done...click fly....and there you are bouncing spits at take off, with out having to take off, form up, and fly across the channel.

you simply cant do this on a DF map, it takes far too long.

all this on a thursday night.

We need both. CO-OPs and DF maps, both

We used to have prob 50 different training missions for different types of training...then another 20 missions for giggles.

understand? you tell me how we do all that with just a DF map?

There is no DF map anymore. There is no Coop either. You can do both at the same time, or only one at a time, your choice entirely, but whatever you described is doable:

1) Have your set of missions ready.
2) Host your mission through the Lobby function and maybe use a password so that only your guys can join.
3) Fly.
4) Exit the mission, host another one, rinse and repeat as needed.

but, you also have the added benefit that if your guys didn't get those ships in the first run they can respawn in a new aircraft and have another go without having to exit,re-host, re-start the mission or have the host typing admin commands to do it in the console.

Sorry, i don't see how the old system is better when the new system can do both MP modes at the same time.