Germany did not lose the Battle of Britain

[MaxGunz]

The BoB wasn't about fighter vs fighter. The RAF prime goal was to attack bombers. Bomber losses did count and they counted more than fighter losses.

Imagine if the LW only sent fighters over? LOL! Think maybe they should have done it that way?

As for a mauling, Sept 15th when the RAF was supposed to have been worn down they did just what to the massed attack that day?

For whatever reason, Hitler was forced to leave the back door open and that did seal the doom of the Third Reich. So who won?

[Crumpp]

The BoB wasn't about fighter vs fighter.

Sure it was. Fighters are the only aircraft capable of winning and holding air superiority. The mission of the Luftwaffe was to gain and hold that air superiority over the invasion area.

For brevity, the analysis focuses primarily on the single-seat fighters deployed by the respective air forces. It was in this arena that the Luftwaffe needed to prevail if it were to achieve air superiority over southern England and, in so doing, defeat the Royal Air Force.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...4/ai_74582443/

Bomber losses did count and they counted more than fighter losses.

Yes, I agree. The German logistical system was not prepared to handle a protracted campaign. They simply could not replace losses at the rate the RAF' system could thanks to some brilliant pre-war planning.

So even though the RAF on a tactical level suffered higher losses in air to air combat, on a strategic level, they bled the Luftwaffe dry.

Erwin Rommel: "Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics".

[Untamo]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Sure it was. Fighters are the only aircraft capable of winning and holding air superiority. The mission of the Luftwaffe was to gain and hold that air superiority over the invasion area.

Nooot entirely true. The German strategy was heavily bent on disabling the British airfields with bombers by cratering them and destroying planes on them. Which they did quite efficiently. So efficiently that the air defence of Southern England was on the brink of collapse...until some stray German bomber accidentally dropped its bombs in the London suburbs. Churchill ordered a retaliation for attacking civilian targets.

After the British retaliation strikes on German cities, angered Hitler ordered the bombers concentrate on Britain's cities, mainly London, which of course let the British repair the fields and continue operating them.

Biiig mistake. I seriously believe that there might have been a very different outcome to the battle if this hadn't happened... But that's just pure speculation

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Now that is some pathetic sheet! Pure postwar-propaganda.
Sometimes I'm pretty glad, that I am living in the 'land that lost'.

[Asheshouse]

As things played out the fact is that the Luftwaffe failed to gain air superiority, a pre-requisite for an invasion attempt and therefore failed strategically.

Tactically the issue was undecided. The RAF refused to be drawn into a fighter v fighter struggle and concentrated on attacks on the bombers, which were the only thing that could do damage. Dowding carefully managed the strength and fighting efficiency of the RAF by holding units back and rotating units out of the southeast sector.

Now the big "what if" -- If the German forces had decided to attempt an invasion and if the Luftwaffe could prevent the Royal Navy intervening then the RAF would have been forced into a fighter v fighter conflict for air supremacy over the channel coast. Things may then have gone very differently.

[MaxGunz]

Planes can be replaced far quicker than pilots and crew. The LW lost a lot of trained pilots and crew -for no real gain- in the BoB. How many of those had been glider pilots since they were kids, knowing energy and maneuver in ways most power pilots don't learn for a long time?

There is also the morale loss to the entire German military. They were stopped for the first time. But that's okay since they got used to it in time to ;earn the new lessons; How to Lose Ground 101, 201, etc.

[Crumpp]

Now that is some pathetic sheet! Pure postwar-propaganda.
Sometimes I'm pretty glad, that I am living in the 'land that lost'.

It is same in most countries. I saw the other day where a museum worker was writing an article on the "P47 problem" trying to attribute the performance of the P47 to the destruction of the Luftwaffe.

I agree with him that the P47 is type of aircraft that shot down most of the Luftwaffe and bore the brunt of that task.

However, the USAAF could have practically flown paper airplanes and beat the Luftwaffe under the conditions of 1944 with the numerical superiority and pilot quality advantage in the Allies possession.

It was men and not machines that won the day, just like the Battle of Britain. My hat is off to the pilots of the RAF who served in that time.

Churchill was right in calling them "the Few". If you examine the data, it was a meat grinder for the FC pilots. The world should be thankful for the lucky few who survived and those who gave all of their tomorrows.

(13) E. B. Haslam, Journal of Strategic Studies (June, 1981):
It was estimated in the summer of the battle that every pilot kept in action for more than six months would be shot down because he was exhausted or stale, or even because he had lost the will to fight. In terms of flying hours the fighter pilot's life expectancy could be measured at eighty-seven.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I have a version of history, that I would like to simply throw into the room here, not knowing if its same kind of propaganda like above or not. It was however teached to me by a medium (I don't know, which, TV or books) and although I never bet much on it, it has influenced my thinking and so I'd still like to see it discussed.

That version goes in short following:

FC was indeed near to be downed at one point of the battle (lack of pilots and/or planes) and only the tactical changing of the Luftwaffes orders (to attack cities, not airfields anymore) save it from being extinguished.
That change was probably ingnited by a Ju88, that dropped its bombs accidentially over London, which was avenged by RAF bombing Berlin in (one of) the next night. Since then Hitler gaver order to attack cities to counter that terror with terror.

I bet its wrong in detail, but what about it in the general layout?

[DD_crash]

Correct as far as I know but the BIG mistake that the Luftwaffe made was not hitting the radar as they didnt know how important Chain Home was By the way this thread is not like the one that Odin made on the Ubizoo. He was very disappointed Britain wasnt invaded and conquered.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by DD_crash

...He was very disappointed Britain wasnt invaded and conquered.

Who is not?




LOL, just kidding!