A warbird control stick

[GADGET]

Well, the Japanese KG12A is 113€, I find it quite competitive considering that the German KG13 replica is in the same price range and that there are only 3 manufacturers in the market. And they also come wired for flight simming use.

By the way, the TARMAC ACES replica is........... 280€ !!!!!! more than twice the price of the others.

I would like some responsible of the company to explain us why we should pay more for their products. I am realy curious to know what we get for our hard earned money, before purchasing anything. So far, we got only good words and two low quality pictures but no technical data whatsoever.

[SG1_Gunkan]

I remenber a shop near Akihabara, Tokyo. They sold fighters model and replicas. But, and that is my point, they have no movement at all. You can't use it to recreate your own control stick.

[ruxtmp]

I agree with everyone that the stick looks real nice but is way overpriced as is the base ($1200 for both ). I could purchase the electronics and have a local machine shop make a one off precision metal gimbal for a few hundred dollars less.

BU0386: $50.00 (12bit) (10bit is a little less expensive)
Hall sensors: $200.00
Precision gimbal: $250.00

Still expensive but I just saved $210.
I know that they have to make a profit but that may be a little much especially since you do not get the stick.

[C6_Trollbug]

Hello !

First , one important thing to know : my tailor is rich, but my english is poor !
Second, most of the information you want, Gadget, is on our webpage . It appears that my english translation is awful, and so, these informations aren't clear .
I apologize for this bad translation . An american simmer kindly offered me to correct our webpage , so I hope it will be soon more informative for every english speaker.

Third , another thing must be clear : Tarmac Aces is a Team , not a company . We are simmers , sustained by a small company, of course, but simmers . The Tarmac Aces project will not help us to feed our families , but it will feed our passion !
The beginning of this project can be found here (it's a french forum) : http://www.checksix-forums.com/showthread.php?t=105622
And we are still working with other french speaking simmers on this project .
On the base will be easily connected other flight controls : trims, throttle , rudder (will be released soon), and replicas of switches ( RLM Fl21118 (magneto selector), RLM Fl21211 (starter clutch), RLM Fl32315 (ignition button) are yet sketched )
So the base can be used as the "central interface" of a simpit .

@Gadget, you're right, we are hiding something : the result of the hundreds of hours of research and developpement we spent on the base (note that we didn't earned even one cent for this work). This result is a revolution .
A sturdy assembling at the tenth of millimetre, on ball bearings. No play . The least movement of the stick gives an information to the sensors . No return to the center.
We made the choice of the innovation and we use only high quality components . High quality components are very expensive, we can't do anything against that .
The ratiometric Hall Effect sensors we use are high-grade sensors , 60 times more precise than the better cermet potentiometer (and without any digital amplification ! ), with a response time under the quarter of a millisecond . In accordance with IP67 , shielded against magnetic fields and radio waves .
The precision of the mechanism combined with the precision of the sensors, and the 40° of travel of the 40 cm stick (as a real one) gives you an unbelievable precision of flying that can't be compared to no other joystick .

1) 500+280=780
2) yes , Leo made a very reliable controller , why shouldn't we use it ? We are simmers , not electronics engineers . (and if you know someone who wants to do the job of engraving the PCB , soldering all the diods and connectors on the diod matrix PCB and all the connectors of the connector panel , just tell me : it's not my favourite hobby, and we're looking for someone wich could do that job)
3) picked on the Tarmac Aces webpage : "...materials : composite materials ..." Different kinds of composite materials are used (some of them are as hard as steel) . The use of the grip will slowly wear his paint , and under this paint , aluminium color will appear . Some other parts will slowly look a bit rusty . And on some other parts, originally made of bakelite , the color of bakelite will slowly appear . Two members of the team are model makers .
4) the mechanical system of management of the efforts of the base reproduce the feeling of having in hand a real control stick , with all the rods to the control surfaces . One member of the Tarmac Aces Team is a pilot on the retirement of the French Airforce . He knows these feelings .
5) you will have to unscrew two flat-head screws , unlock a connector and unplug it .Easy ! The KG13 is our first grip . The SEMMP (the grip of the Mirage III, Mirage F1, Super Etendard, Jaguar, Alphajet (nicknamed "Gadget" ) will soon be available . And the Spitfire grip , too .
6) you will have to plug an USB connector , and do a calibration in your Windows Control Panel .

"I have asked several times about more information (never received on the other hand, just good words)" Gadget , I'm surprised : did you used the "mailto" link in our webpage ? I answered all the asks I received . Our webpage had some problems at the beginnig , but they are solved today .

@Tte.Costa
"If theres no need for software How do you use the radio button for Team Speak or Roger Wilko? "
Very good remark ! Do you know Joytokey ? This little software works perfectly !

@ruxtmp , when I bought my Cougar, two years ago , it took me six hours to conceive and carry out my own Mod, a gimbal system on ball bearings, with traction springs and no central play . It cost me 60 € .
I spent hundreds hours on the Tarmac Aces base and its parts .
Our goal is to try to progress the flight simulation hardware. To make the most realistic possible. It may be your goal, too.


Good flight !

[Evil_Merlin]

I'll stick with my Thrustmaster Cougar.

It was only $250 and give me all I need with the exception of forcefeedback.

Yes Trollbug, you make a great product, but it is highly overpriced for today's sim market, which quite frankly, has been dying a slow death for the past 7-10 years.


While I appreciate the huge amount of engineering and research that went into this product, I have a feeling that its not going to be an easy sell, as most people pay less for their sim computers than this setup.

I wish you the best of luck none the less!

[GADGET]

Thank you for your answers C6_Trollbug.

English is either my native language, but apparently we arrived to an understandement here.

It is nice to finally recive information about your product. I asked twice as soon as it was public the creation of the company and I revealed my intentions as a buyer. Check your e-mails please, it is easy because my nick is also my email.

I understand perfectly your situation, as I am also involved in developing products for flight simmers and I have been following the development of the joystick since the begining on C6 forums... even we coud cooperate as we have the capability of providing the electronics and sofware for your stick.

I know how expensive things are, specially in small stocks, but just because products become so expensive, customers deserve extra-good information about what they are buying for those mega-€. Please include the information suplied above also in your website. I can even make the translation into Spanish if you need so.

As I said I am stil interested in purchasing your stick base but I still have some questions:

1) No return to center, so what is the artificial feeling system utilized?
2) How is the gimbal system used.
3) What kind of sticks can we use (metal or plastic, diameter, etc) and are they suplied by your team?
4) What are the posibilities of using the stick base as a mod for other brands, such as ThrustMaster or Saitek.
5) How is the wiring from the grip connected through/by the stick base.
6) Do you offer some kind of guarante for your products?

Finally

7) When do you plan to offer B4 or B8 grips for American planes? I am interested in the Corsair grip, but the 4 buttons version.

Thank you for your answers

[C6_Trollbug]

Hello !

Many thanks to two simmers, 352ndChaco and JVM , a new translation for our english website is online !
There are some good news in the Briefing Room page , and in the News page too ...

C6_Trollbug

PS :
@Gadget :
1) it's a revolution , but a secret
2) secret too ....
3) the sticks are supplied by Tarmac Aces : look at the Briefing Room !
4) it's not planned
5) a locking cylindric connector (as in a real plane )
6) technically , it's built to last at least 20 years . Commercially , we didn't examined it yet ...
7) when we'll have access to a real one , of course . If the curator of an aircraft museum is one of your friends , talk to him of us , and let me know

Good flight !

[GADGET]

Thank you for your answers and the new translations.

Nevertheless, I don't know if I speak for other potential customers here, but the word "secret" for a simple tech description of a product not explained on the website well enough , and knowing that you are a three friend group and that so far you offer no commercial garantee for this 800€ device, does no good for your sales.

As I said already on my last e-mail, I will wait to see a more mature product, or at least until I know how it works and if it suits my needs.

On the other hand, when for the Spitfire spade grip? What version?

A sugestion for american grips. We found on the Spanish Do.27s that they use B4 grips. You also might have some in France.

Also, T-6s use the same pedals as Mustangs.

[-Sulan-]

I think the stick seams awesome!!!
Amazing work!!

I´m seriously contemplating a buy (SoW:BoB has to come out first though). But as Gadget said, a guarantee would go a long way to tip the scales towards a buy!


Good luck with the products!!!

[Jutocsa]

Originally Posted by C6_Trollbug

Hello !

PS :
@Gadget :
1) it's a revolution , but a secret
2) secret too ....
3) ..
4) it's not planned
.
.
.

No offence meant at all, but considering those answers I must ask...arent you by any chance Oleg himself ?