Friday update and discussions 2011-03-18

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by Biggs

And my Fathers parents lived in Sevenoaks not that much further away!

Stayed a night in the Backpackers near Seven Oaks on my first night in England in the early 90's (an old Church?) Trying to remember the name of the pub I went to?????

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by Oldschool61

If people actually took the time to do this we wouldnt have all these religous wackos either. And we might actually have a planet without jihads and crusades....oh well I guess I can dream..

It really pisses me off when you religious zealots (and by that I mean Atheists) get to insult people of faith all you want but when we push back the thread gets locked because we're talking about "religion". Well you have more faith in your bogus religion than I do in mine so I guess you win in the religion game. Try staying on topic for five minutes.

[BadAim]

Originally Posted by sallee

Do you know, I'm a 47 year old solicitor. I've got three children. I've been fascinated by aviation since I was about 5 years old. It may be even longer because I think one of my first memories is of aircraft circling around above me and my father tells me that we stopped in a lay-by to watch what was presumably the filming of the film "Battle of Britain". I read about aircraft, a lot.
I've played just about every flight sim you can name. When I was a child the closest we came to a flight sim was chasing each other on our bikes.
IL2 was an absolute miracle to me. The images, the pink sunset moving across the instrument panel, all amazing and miles ahead of the "opposition".
In the last year or so, I've been playing Rise of Flight which is as amazing to me as IL2 when it first came out. I've flown PA28s, Chipmunks, a Jodel Robin, a Harvard and Tiger Moths. Any of the people involved in serious flight sims I hold in the highest regard. They'll never make a fortune out of it. The enthusiasm and love of flight which is palpable in the teams which have created Rise of Flight and the IL2 series is a cause of genuine rejoicing to me. I'm not naive and I'm not a simpleton. I'm as critical as the next man. My reaction to this stuff is visceral, it eirher convinces or it doesn't.
Now, what is it that makes some of the negativity here so distasteful? It's not because I want to marry Oleg. It's because someone has devoted his life and huge amounts of effort and (who knows?) has struggled to persuade people, like his publishers, of the commercial viability of flight sims because of a real love for what he does. I've got a reason to admire him and his team. A real reason, not a blind stupidity and I can do without people telling me not to have that admiration or why I should not have it. This stuff is pure gold. It's amazing it exists at all. My critical faculty is impressed and overawed by it.

I think the videos are amazing. Some things are not perfect, but, good grief, this is as near as it gets.

AMEN! Let's try to have a little appreciation for someone who has put his money where his mouth is instead of just letting his mouth run unattended like too many do here.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

Correct me if I am wrong here, but didn't last weeks update show that tessellation was already implemented?

and Helicon said best himself:


and that my friends and fellow posters, and even Helicon is exactly what the CloD ENGINE is. It is the next/newest/next gen flight engine. Just because it doesn't (you presume) have the newest graphics hardware implemented doesn't mean it's last gen. It's the ENGINE that is next-gen.

Your brain seems to be rather antiquated, and poorly oiled. You spew vitriol and then get upset when others return it. Before you post breathe a bit, and calm down. No one is attacking you personally (well before you started doing it.) On the same note we've all gotten rather savage lately, anticipation obviously a factor, and we really need to step back and be a bit more cordial towards one another and the devs.

No its not because tesselation requires dx11 which is not in the release version.

Love the moronic responses, saying I said something, I ask you to show where I said that, and you just throw more insults. Seriously grow up, and their is a differance between arguing over a point and just throwing crap for the sake of it. If someone says I said something I did not say, and they keep insisting I did, despite the fact that they cannot provide evidence and its obvious they never went back to actually read the series of events as they happened, instead jumping on the bandwagon of kiddies throwing insults I reserve the right to call them lazy morons because if they cant read they should not post.

@Immerman - As for the AMD article - its an interesting read but the only thing I would point out is that AMD is ticked off at DirectX/Nvidia atm because Nvidia dx11 cards are better overall in dx11 then ati (especially tesselation).

@ Titus - no you sound stupid now. I can say this because you are making statements about something you dont know about. Tesselation does reduce performance, but it reduces performance substantially less then if you were to use other methods to generate the same detail. Over that it is much easier to use tesselation on an object then model multiple LOD versions.

So children here can keep up their attacks and absurd statements based on no substance, but I reserve the right to yet again say FAIL because all my statements for the last 5 months on windows market share, gpu share in general and graphics design have been word by word topic by topic legitimised by the devs in the more recent interviews, and that was after a similar scrap in the forum over dx11 at release. So as of know I have been the only person able to more or less "predict" or forsee what the devs would or should do to solve these issues. That doesnt mean I will always be right, but its better then others records here.

[Ploughman]

Originally Posted by BadAim

It really pisses me off when you religious zealots (and by that I mean Atheists)

Well that really nibbles the cookie that one.

[Kikuchiyo]

Originally Posted by Heliocon

No its not because tesselation requires dx11 which is not in the release version.

Sir, this is tessellation. Oleg said somewhere around 2 months ago it likely wouldn't be in the release. You are arguing a point that makes little sense, and you are flying in the face of evidence all the while shouting insults at people. Then getting indignant about it. Calm down. Perhaps the way you are stating things doesn't make sense to others the way it does to you.

[David Hayward]

Heliocon, is there a point to your ranting?

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Kikuchiyo

Sir, this is tessellation. Oleg said somewhere around 2 months ago it likely wouldn't be in the release. You are arguing a point that makes little sense, and you are flying in the face of evidence all the while shouting insults at people. Then getting indignant about it. Calm down. Perhaps the way you are stating things doesn't make sense to others the way it does to you.

What is tesselation? You didnt show anything their that indicates tesselation which makes you look rather silly. So please explain how that photo shows tesselation, because obviously you said it "is" tesselation. So please describe in the photo what is tesselated and how you know that.

Now what evidence are you talking about, and what point am I arguing? Because you failed to say in your post through quote or any other method what you were talking about. Which looks retarded...

[Screwball]

Apologies for getting caught up in this, but I - like just about everyone - am getting fed up:

CloDo was claimed to have a 'next gen' engine; Heliocon rightly pointed out that this wasn't so - as it didn't take advantage of the absolute latest technologies. That's all. No calling the engine rude things; no claiming there was anything better; no discounting the very valid reasons the dev team had for not including, for example, DX11 from the off.

Heliocon provided links to his (I presume, my apologies if not) sources for specific numbers used when the discussion moved on to the possible influence changing market share of various cards (and so the 'right-' or 'wrong'ness of that decision by the devs to go with stable rather than cutting-edge). When faced with EVIDENCE that supported a different interpretation, he was able to move on and adopt that new information - laudable, and more than could be said for some.

It seems to me very much that others are getting all het up over indirectly related issues, leading to everyone getting a little hot under the collar and insults and claims of rants now abound.

Why?

Take a step back, don't read too much into what anyone says, but pay attention to what it is that they do say. Fair enough to call CloDo 'not state of the art' - it isn't, with the best will in the world. Now, it would be unfair to call it anything other than the newest and the best...but nobody has Heliocon, Tree and co. often take quite a lot of flak from those who misinterpret and misrepresent what it is they say. Not that they always handle the situation perfectly, but who does?

Having, at great length, established that on release Cliffs of Dover will be the best PLATFORM (agreed by all) on which to base a long-running WWII aviation simulation, with updates including full utilisation of DX11 etc (also agreed) just as soon as is practical, and that people are imperfect (who knew?!)...can we please now move on?

love love,

Screwy

PS EDIT: See above for perfect example.

Kikuchiyo, I'm afraid that's not tessellation (nice though it would be!), it's just a very effective texture. If you look to the edges of the sandbags you can see pretty clearly that they are absolutely vertical. If tessellated you'd be able to see the 3D outline of the sandbags, where at the moment there is only a flat 2D line denoting the edge.
Heliocon, having just defended you somewhat, please play nicely - does no harm to try to correct people so they can appreciated where they were mistaken in a way which leads them to learn more...I fear insults and patronising isn't the way to do this...

[Defender]

Guys honestly, we need to do something about these forums. Can we let these DX arguments dissolve please? Agree to disagree? It's like watching an old married couple fight and I'm really not interested in sifting through all this just to get some of the rare bits of interesting tid bits many forum members contribute.

I mean no disrespect to both parties, but honestly I would LOVE to come here for a visit and not watch the same people battling back and forth. I know it's tough, but let that frontal lobe of your brain do some work and control that rage/rant nonsense that's really getting tired here.

We should go back to constructive posts, typed in an adult manner showing respect and civility.

Okay, apologize in advance for the "school master" topic of this post. We should all just calm down, have a drink and look forward to the end of a multi year development process.



Some will like it, some won't...it's not going to bring about world peace or bring balance to the force.