Upgrading Ents

[gregwak]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask this so pardon me if it's not. Almost done with Orc's on the March. Just love the game. I'm going to go right into Legend when I'm done. One question. Trying to upgrade Ents into "old Ents" at an acadamy and I get the message "cannot, need race Elces" I have no idea what that means. Any help would be appreciated.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by gregwak

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask this so pardon me if it's not. Almost done with Orc's on the March. Just love the game. I'm going to go right into Legend when I'm done. One question. Trying to upgrade Ents into "old Ents" at an acadamy and I get the message "cannot, need race Elces" I have no idea what that means. Any help would be appreciated.

You need enough trophies to learn how to upgrade the Elf race. When you go to the academy an option is "I want to learn how to upgrade other races".

You will also need the "I want to learn how ot upgrade to stronger troops" bit, which lets you train level 4 units into level 5 units.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Ancient ents must have high phys threshold?

Any good as a tank unit? tricky to ressurect I guess

oh and heal

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by Kings Bounty Hunter

Ancient ents must have high phys threshold?

Any good as a tank unit? tricky to ressurect I guess

oh and heal

20% physical, I think. I believe can be rezzed via fauns and Demonologists. Tank... I'm not too convinced. You'd pretty much have to teleport them (like Giants). Maybe with the +1 speed boots, and Axel or something for another speed.

Man, I wish one of those plant items gave +1 speed to plants. That'd freaking rock.

[atlatea]

Well, you have the wrong way to go if you teleport your ent, i mean you played it wrong.

It works the other way around, draw your enemies to the ent.

With what? Simple, with target.

Ent main use is not only as a tank, but as interceptor, use your ent to intercept enemy melee/close range unit and tie them up to the ent via its roots, and your ranged unit/shooters can have a party (or parties). Short words: ent is shooters best friend. Another tricky use is for: halting something while you do other thing (example is divide and conquer strategy, another is delaying something while you do other thing which have higher priority or vice versa)

Don't forget to always bring faun and paladin for no loss. Ent and faun is compatible with paladin + the rest are elves army. Perhaps it is the best synergy in the game.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Well, you have the wrong way to go if you teleport your ent, i mean you played it wrong.

It works the other way around, draw your enemies to the ent.

With what? Simple, with target.

Ent main use is not only as a tank, but as interceptor, use your ent to intercept enemy melee/close range unit and tie them up to the ent via its roots, and your ranged unit/shooters can have a party (or parties). Short words: ent is shooters best friend. Another tricky use is for: halting something while you do other thing (example is divide and conquer strategy, another is delaying something while you do other thing which have higher priority or vice versa)

Don't forget to always bring faun and paladin for no loss. Ent and faun is compatible with paladin + the rest are elves army. Perhaps it is the best synergy in the game.

So, an Ancient Ent moves 1 square, can run once for two more, and has init 1. (I think that is the init). How exactly is it Intercepting anything?

Sure, you can target it to lock down archers, but that is true of many level 5 units, some of which that can move a lot faster, or regen all their HP each turn. The Ancient Ent really can do some good if it gets all up close, but you aren't going to do that without some extra work.

[atlatea]

Obviously you haven't toyed with ent.

And i never said that the ent by it self is good interceptor, it is just one of its role, obviously you must bring another unit with high init. That's why i suggest all elves army, plus paladin. Since most elves has high init. Of course the real reason is their synergy.

3 move is already enough if you use target, just bring high init unit, cast target on first turn on ent.

For lv 5, ent can go toe to toe with most lv 5 except red and black dragon, yes they do beat green dragon 1 on 1, of course it is ai's green dragon.

And lol, which lv 5 (except shooters like cyclop and rune mage) that can reach you in single turn beside ogre, black dragon, red dragon, archdemon? None.

Yes, the point is, if they can't reach you in single turn, then ent can intercept it. No lv 5 except what i mentioned above that can't be intercepted by ent before they hit you. Turn 1 they can't reach you, you use run and dash forward to the center, turn 2 they will go to your ent or they won't, if you cast haste 3 in turn 1, they are immediately intercepted and get rooted, if you cast it by the time your ent get to move, result is the same. Ok, i know that haste is not always the best spells to be used at turn 1 or turn 2, and of course there will be a question, without haste how can they intercept? The point is not to intercept them asap before they hit you, because another purpose of this unit is making one or more units out of play because they get rooted, no matter how fast they're out. I foresee another argument is, it will attack the ent and present me with resurection problem, note that with the addition of faun/satyr, ent is the easiest lv 5 to resurect, it has the most resurection alternative, and faun resurection capabilities is among the best in the game.

Teleport is not always needed, reason? haste and target is much better in most situation (the topic clearly stated that we don't limit our discussion about ent againts only lv 5 units).

Of course that doesn't mean teleport is not needed at all for ent, if circumtances such as againts lv 5 shooters presents itself, best course of action for ent is indeed to teleport them right next to those shooters, if you consider them to be your key priority of course. As for lv 4 shooter, just cast target and problem solved.

But in most circumtances, haste lv 3 and target lv 3 is much better. Also consider slow 3 too, but you need careful planning for that.

Have divine armor and 2 fire resistance item, and they are even with black dragon 1 on 1, yep even black dragon can be rooted.

And the #1 candidate for most annoying lv 5 unit for all kind of armies is ogre, ent is one of the best counter againts them, except if you go single stack (dragons + paladin adrenaline), which i rarely favors. Ogre will almost always reach you in 1 turn by draining, and if they fails at turn 1, they will surely succeed in turn 2, now does 1 speed matters in this? nope, because they will come right to the ent and get rooted.

And for archdemon, yeah i admit, it is its worst nightmare, as it can dispel its roots. But i'm more than happy if those archdemon hit my ent instead my other units, because it is currently the easiest lv 5 to resurrect.

Now i never said that you can tie all your enemies to the ent asap, that is never possible, but some of your key priority enemies can be tied to the ent, remember key priority doesn't always means the most dangerous, it can be otherwise.

If you like control so much, ent is one of you best friend, along with all elves, all elves are control freaks.

As for initiative problem, why don't you pick warrior onslaught, or paladin adrenaline, those two is almost a must have for me whenever i play those two class. It's still nice for mage.

Most people want to use ent as heavy hitter, heavy tank, and heavy shooter, that's why they find ent lacking and almost the worst lv 5 if not the worst. But they almost always ignore its rooting ability. And yes of course, you need some tricks to make its rooting ability shine.

Some suggestion, try all elves + paladin, and you'll know the true power of the ent. I won't describe it to the very detail, because i believe i've describe it in another thread(s). However i admit, until now i never find better armies for ent other than control freaks (doesn't always to be elves) army.

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Obviously you haven't toyed with ent.

And i never said that the ent by it self is good interceptor, it is just one of its role, obviously you must bring another unit with high init. That's why i suggest all elves army, plus paladin. Since most elves has high init. Of course the real reason is their synergy.

3 move is already enough if you use target, just bring high init unit, cast target on first turn on ent.

For lv 5, ent can go toe to toe with most lv 5 except red and black dragon, yes they do beat green dragon 1 on 1, of course it is ai's green dragon.

And lol, which lv 5 (except shooters like cyclop and rune mage) that can reach you in single turn beside ogre, black dragon, red dragon, archdemon? None.

Yes, the point is, if they can't reach you in single turn, then ent can intercept it. No lv 5 except what i mentioned above that can't be intercepted by ent before they hit you.

So other than Cyclops, Rune Mage, Ogre, Black Dragon, Red Dragon, Archdemon? Well, Bone Dragon and Green Dragon. And Giant. There aren't THAT many level 5 units out there. I guess trolls can't? Orc Chieftan's Can't?

Turn 1 they can't reach you, you use run and dash forward to the center, turn 2 they will go to your ent or they won't, if you cast haste 3 in turn 1, they are immediately intercepted and get rooted, if you cast it by the time your ent get to move, result is the same.

I haven't used Ancient Ents in a while, but I was pretty sure their 'root' ability is only a 50% or something chance of triggering. Also, it only works on retaliation, of which you get one. Also... you are casting Haste 3 Instead of Teleport. Whatever, the point is you have to cast an extra spell to make it really work. That could have been, say, target + stoneskin (or just target if not a mage). Instead you Hasted.

Ok, i know that haste is not always the best spells to be used at turn 1 or turn 2, and of course there will be a question, without haste how can they intercept? The point is not to intercept them asap before they hit you, because another purpose of this unit is making one or more units out of play because they get rooted, no matter how fast they're out. I foresee another argument is, it will attack the ent and present me with resurection problem, note that with the addition of faun/satyr, ent is the easiest lv 5 to resurect, it has the most resurection alternative, and faun resurection capabilities is among the best in the game.

If you want to take out units, you could also just use an Ogre and suck away their AP's for two turns. I mean, I get that it could be effective, I'm sure there's some good strategies there, but I think you are sorta overstating things a bit.

Teleport is not always needed, reason? haste and target is much better in most situation (the topic clearly stated that we don't limit our discussion about ent againts only lv 5 units).

Okay you don't need Teleport, you could also use Haste. Either way it is an extra spell cast just to provide mobility to an otherwise immobile unit. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Of course that doesn't mean teleport is not needed at all for ent, if circumtances such as againts lv 5 shooters presents itself, best course of action for ent is indeed to teleport them right next to those shooters, if you consider them to be your key priority of course. As for lv 4 shooter, just cast target and problem solved.

But in most circumtances, haste lv 3 and target lv 3 is much better. Also consider slow 3 too, but you need careful planning for that.

Have divine armor and 2 fire resistance item, and they are even with black dragon 1 on 1, yep even black dragon can be rooted.

And the #1 candidate for most annoying lv 5 unit for all kind of armies is ogre, ent is one of the best counter againts them, except if you go single stack (dragons + paladin adrenaline), which i rarely favors. Ogre will almost always reach you in 1 turn by draining, and if they fails at turn 1, they will surely succeed in turn 2, now does 1 speed matters in this? nope, because they will come right to the ent and get rooted.

And for archdemon, yeah i admit, it is its worst nightmare, as it can dispel its roots. But i'm more than happy if those archdemon hit my ent instead my other units, because it is currently the easiest lv 5 to resurrect.

Now i never said that you can tie all your enemies to the ent asap, that is never possible, but some of your key priority enemies can be tied to the ent, remember key priority doesn't always means the most dangerous, it can be otherwise.

If you like control so much, ent is one of you best friend, along with all elves, all elves are control freaks.

As for initiative problem, why don't you pick warrior onslaught, or paladin adrenaline, those two is almost a must have for me whenever i play those two class. It's still nice for mage.

Most people want to use ent as heavy hitter, heavy tank, and heavy shooter, that's why they find ent lacking and almost the worst lv 5 if not the worst. But they almost always ignore its rooting ability. And yes of course, you need some tricks to make its rooting ability shine.

Some suggestion, try all elves + paladin, and you'll know the true power of the ent. I won't describe it to the very detail, because i believe i've describe it in another thread(s). However i admit, until now i never find better armies for ent other than control freaks (doesn't always to be elves) army.

Most of the best armies are based on control, to be honest. Either strict control, ala Fear, Slow, Blind, or on powerful resurrection like Target/Timeback. The later case, I'd much rather target/timeback something like a red dragon that can burn down a huge number of enemies, than an Ent that has a hard time getting to melee range.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

oh my lol (grabs popcorn)