More severe moderation in update threads?

[heywooood]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I think the overall moderation here is good.. but in some of these update threads I see stuff that just shouldn't be there... When Oleg points out in the first thread that he is aware of a bug or that the shots are pre beta or taken at a lower res etc.. and then we get googobs of posts pointing out the bug or the quality of the shots .. that Oleg mentioned in his initial post.. to me tat is a waste of space.. Some people just look to find flaws and point them out.. and while I am sure that 1C is appreciative of things pointed out by users that they may miss... all this is unfinished.. so I find it kind of annoying at times that folks just can't appreciate the update for it's own sake.. and wait until the sim is at least nearer to completion or even released in a demo before the critics come out of the woodwork.

I would go one step further and say that some posters seem to feel obliged to identify perceived flaws in development shots not so much out of contempt for the sim but rather as if there is some special merit or reward system in place for finding Waldo - or worse - to attempt to demonstrate their own powers of observation or 'expertise' in a given aspect of whatever the screenshot depicts: be it the shape of a spinner or cowling, or the instrumentation of a cockpit, or the species of grass in a region etc...

I think we need to ask ourselves in these situations - how important is it to be right vs noticed??

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

...KOM.Nausicaa, I really like to know what's your personal opinion and your proposal ban for the following typical rude, insulting The Community and most racist posting I've ever seen on a simulation forum.

Hi, I would like to answer your post in several parts.

First, I would like to say that it is not particularly fairplay to bring a post from a past conversation and from another forum (and a completely different subject) over to here, by quoting only the worst statement. It is clear that there is a reason and conversation history why it came to that post in anger. I do not think, however, that you are interested in analyzing the mechanics of this incident, why it came to the anger and what the individual guilt of the participants (my guilt included) was in that thread.
What you are trying to do is usually called "discrediting", or sometimes "slander":

Originally Posted by Wikipeda

"the expression discrediting tactics (...) refers to personal attacks (...) intended to discourage people from believing in the figure or supporting their cause

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrediting_tactic

Furthermore, you only link to my post (but not the conversation history), while making yourself a even more defavorable translation from french to english of the post. That is called "libel" in english:

Originally Posted by merriam-webster dictionary

(Libel) "a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression"

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/libel


Second, you ask the question what a moderator should do with a post like mine on "Checksix". The answer is: a mod is free to warn or ban my account there if he wants to. The particular post you quoted was angry and impolite -- I agree. He would be right doing it in the time and I would support it then and now -- and I have already done myself in a way, because I have not posted a single post on this forum anymore since this conversation 5 months ago. I am self-banned so to speak -- because I have no interest whatsoever left in "Checksix", simply because of the treatment I got on checksix that made me angry in such a way. That leads me to the last point:

You accuse me of racism towards french. I want to make this short, because I really have no interest at all in bringing a fight from another forum 5 months ago to this place and this thread. It is of no concern to you that I speak french fluently since over 20 years, work in France and have a french wife, but I'll say it anyway, because it's an amusing detail.
I thought Checksix was a particular unwelcoming and unpleasant place to a new (foreigner) person like me, tainted by a certain faction that represents a arrogant, rude, excluding and elitist french attitude -- at least in my opinion. That would become much clearer for outsiders if you would translate the whole conversation. But you are completely free to disagree with my view and it may very well be that other people have other experiences. But that was mine, and I said it in an angry way back then and say it now again in a calm way: I haven't changed my opinion about that typical french elitism and rudeness towards foreigners as it exists seemingly on checksix (among a certain faction) one bit. One disclaimer I want to make though: I am totally convinced there are many fine people at Checksix. When the whole unfortunate fighting happened I got 2 pm's by the way supporting me.....both by french members. That is another funny detail.

To end this I would think it being polite to other people here and the subject of this thread to end the conversation about the incident on checksix. What you have done is an unfair attempt at discrediting me with an incident quoted out of context and a shaky "translation", and I have no further desire talking to you. If you still want to clear things up with me, please do so via PM or openly on Checksix if you absolutely feel the urge for public viewing. To be fair to you I'll check Checksix over the week-end to see if you have opened a thread there.

Thanks,

N.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I think the overall moderation here is good.. but in some of these update threads I see stuff that just shouldn't be there... When Oleg points out in the first thread that he is aware of a bug or that the shots are pre beta or taken at a lower res etc.. and then we get googobs of posts pointing out the bug or the quality of the shots .. that Oleg mentioned in his initial post.. to me tat is a waste of space.

Agreed.

all this is unfinished.. so I find it kind of annoying at times that folks just can't appreciate the update for it's own sake.. and wait until the sim is at least nearer to completion or even released in a demo before the critics come out of the woodwork.

I disagree with that, because early on it is easier to make changes than it is later.

Originally Posted by heywooood

I would go one step further and say that some posters seem to feel obliged to identify perceived flaws in development shots not so much out of contempt for the sim but rather as if there is some special merit or reward system in place for finding Waldo - or worse - to attempt to demonstrate their own powers of observation or 'expertise' in a given aspect of whatever the screenshot depicts: be it the shape of a spinner or cowling, or the instrumentation of a cockpit, or the species of grass in a region etc.

This is about whether SoW should be a simulator or a game, and is asking for a game, in my reading of it. If history matters, and in a sim history matters, then details matter, and it's right to bring them up. Those who only want a game, and want it NOW may find this frustrating, but I would guess we are mostly simmers here.

[Rodolphe]

...

Originally Posted by WikipediA

While a person may be insulted, and his political position subjected to question, the person so impugned has not been discredited until the allegations against him have been proved correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrediting_tactic

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

I said it in an angry way back then and say it now again in a calm way : I haven't changed my opinion about that typical french elitism and rudeness towards foreigners [/U] as it exists seemingly on checksix (among a certain faction) one bit.
N.

Thanks Nausicaa, I've really appreciated your 'well-rounded' answer.

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

and I have no further desire talking to you

We agree on that !


...

[winny]

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

...

most racist posting I've ever seen on a simulation forum.

...

Wow, you've not been looking very hard then...

Anyway I don't think it's racism, not by a long shot.

It's a european nations thing, I actually think we're probably allowed the odd 'Frenchie' or 'German asshole' they are pretty tame. There's always been a bit of inter-nation rivalry in europe (this is a massive undersatement, we've been killing each other for centuries!) and I much perfer the odd slanging match on a forum to the old way of doing things....


Anyway, remember...

Racism is born of ignorance.
Xenophobia is born of experience...

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Rodolphe just quoted the tiny bit in my answer that suited him. That was expected, and he is now on my ignore list, as I don't expect anything more constructive. He had his chance. If he wants to debate he can do it by the channels I have offered him. Anyway, I am all for coming back to the subject of this thread.

[ATAG_Dutch]

It might be my imagination, but isn't this week's update thread very very quiet?

There're still a few off topic posts, but the whole discussion seems, well, flat.

Plus, the on-topic posts mostly seem to have got the wrong end of the stick re the first two screenshots, and the 'bug' Mr Maddox mentioned.

Interesting.

P.S. I count two bans by nearmiss so far!

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

It might be my imagination, but isn't this week's update thread very very quiet?

There're still a few off topic posts, but the whole discussion seems, well, flat.

Plus, the on-topic posts mostly seem to have got the wrong end of the stick re the first two screenshots, and the 'bug' Mr Maddox mentioned.

Interesting.



P.S. I count two bans by nearmiss so far!

Yes interesting, although I do miss hearing their initial view's on the up-date. I think Oleg announcing his tiredness, also affected the enthusiasm of the thread.

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

It might be my imagination, but isn't this week's update thread very very quiet?

There're still a few off topic posts, but the whole discussion seems, well, flat.

Plus, the on-topic posts mostly seem to have got the wrong end of the stick re the first two screenshots, and the 'bug' Mr Maddox mentioned.

Interesting.

P.S. I count two bans by nearmiss so far!

Yeah its quiet, bad atmosphere and a 'climate of fear' lol. I can only speak for myself Dutch mate but I was not banned (obviously lol) but my post was just 'annotated' ; ironically, the part removed was a direct question to the mods as to whether what I was typing about FFB pertaining to my question to Oleg was "off topic" or not, and asking for clarification in a polite manner.

I copied and pasted exactly what was wrote to a text doc prior to this, so if anyone wants to see it, feel free to PM me. Too risky to do it any other way.

I think it might have served the 'cause' better if it was left in, then people could see that asking for clarification on OT was unacceptable....but that's just my opinion, and fair dinkum.

Technically I suppose it was OT, but I just made the point there is limited scope for discussion of these pictures, and I was responding to a fellow forum members statement about FFB....asking if it was ok.

There is most definitely a need to cut down on OT, and I wholeheartedly agree. There is also such a thing as disproportionate 'overkill' IMO, though I'm not even sure if we are allowed to have opinions any more.

End of day, it matters not. People will just start leaving this forum en masse and there will be no need for ban hammers anyway, they'll just go somewhere else.
'What wud yew dew?" Freedom isn't free.

Cya (in the event of an unscheduled 'Holiday'. ). The truth has many Martyrs.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

When a policy is changed it often happens that it is applied a little bit too harshly in the beginning. Those who have to enforce it want to make it very clear to everyone that the rules are different now, and they also have to test the ground beneath their feet a bit for themselves. Over time they will find the balance.
Overall though it feels much better now to read the official update thread. I am sure Oleg has a better time too reading (and finding) questions and valuable feedback, IMO, instead if wading through fighting and bickering.