Friday 2010-11-19 Dev. update and Discussion

[kendo65]

Page 7 and no-one has mentioned the smoking tracers?!?

Maybe too many other great things to comment on?

Excellent.

[Foo'bar]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Page 7 and no-one has mentioned the smoking tracers?!?

Maybe too many other great things to comment on?

Excellent.

Only bad things will be commented. Good things are expected.

[philip.ed]

We haven't seen the tracers in motion so it's hard to comment Also, with the spiral, was this a common feature or is it down to camera shake? I've heard strong arguments for both reasons.

[furbs]

very good update! lots of very nice stuff for sure

would love to see some weathering on the 109s though...they look so clean and pretty

[choctaw111]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

We haven't seen the tracers in motion so it's hard to comment Also, with the spiral, was this a common feature or is it down to camera shake? I've heard strong arguments for both reasons.

The spiral effect of the smoke was not a camera shake issue. The spiral like vortices were actually present.
I had a 20mm MG-FF cannon shell pulled from a shot up B17. The hole for the tracer was off center. This is another contributing factor to the spirals.
The only thing about the wiggling tracers that I have an argument about is quite simple.
When viewing a tracer that is fired, it will appear as a streak traveling in a straight line, no wiggles, BUT if you are firing a handheld or semi fixed machine gun, the vibrations and recoil on your face will cause the tracer to appear a little distorted, very much like the camera shake.

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by choctaw111

The spiral effect of the smoke was not a camera shake issue. The spiral like vortices were actually present.
I had a 20mm MG-FF cannon shell pulled from a shot up B17. The hole for the tracer was off center. This is another contributing factor to the spirals.
The only thing about the wiggling tracers that I have an argument about is quite simple.
When viewing a tracer that is fired, it will appear as a streak traveling in a straight line, no wiggles, BUT if you are firing a handheld or semi fixed machine gun, the vibrations and recoil on your face will cause the tracer to appear a little distorted, very much like the camera shake.

Agreed, there's no way that the spiral effect we see in film could be caused by camera shake...if it was then the spiral smoke effect produced earlier in the flight of the shell would not be there in the subsequent frames..but it is.

I don't believe all tracers produced this spiral but some of the larger calibre ones definitely did. How it was produced I have no idea. We've seen balistic studies on this forum recently showing that bullets/shells do gyrate around an axis in flight but I can't believe this wobble was very large. Perhaps it becomes larger as the flight time increases and energy is lost?

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

We haven't seen the tracers in motion so it's hard to comment Also, with the spiral, was this a common feature or is it down to camera shake? I've heard strong arguments for both reasons.

I think a combination of both for sure. The flight path of bullets gets very erratic when the mach barrier is crossed as they slow, after only 2 or 3 seconds of flight time. Add the sideways movements of the platform, caused by the firing of guns themselves. Another factor being any sideslip of the aircraft during the firing, introducing strong crosswind on the projectile. These would all combine to give a pronounced image to the viewer.

[Necrobaron]

Very nice! I might sound like a broken record, but once again, this is one of the best updates to date. A good bit of information can be gleaned from those lovely screenies...

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

I think a combination of both for sure. The flight path of bullets gets very erratic when the mach barrier is crossed as they slow, after only 2 or 3 seconds of flight time. Add the sideways movements of the platform, caused by the firing of guns themselves. Another factor being any sideslip of the aircraft during the firing, introducing strong crosswind on the projectile. These would all combine to give a pronounced image to the viewer.

Could such a noticeable spiral be reached?
Maybe....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aqJw...E3248F&index=7

I can't say whether this is the camera shake causing the effect, but then maybe this is modelled in SoW? In the same way that the different prop-visuals are modelled dependent on the speed the player sets the game to....?
Quite interesting, I can't wait to see this in-game.

[arjisme]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I don't see how camera shake can explain a continuous spiral pattern in the tracer smoke as shown in that video. It would explain the wiggly tracer light, but that isn't a spiral effect -- it is an erratic wiggle. But for the tracer smoke, as the camera moves across the scene, the smoke remains in its spiral pattern.

I assume the spiral pattern comes from tracer rounds that tumble.