Real World BoB Hurricane Pilot's views on SOW

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by PeterPanPan

Flight Lieutenant John Greenwood flew Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain with RAF 253 Squadron. He shot down a Heinkel over Farnborough in August 1940. He is now 91.

Through a mutual friend, I managed to show him this ...

... and here's what he had to say.

"As for the simulator I cannot pass comment for it was short and looked like a computer game which I used to play some years ago. I guess it is more like a game than a simulator. A hurricane would have been shot down long before it reached the Heinkels."

....

PPanPan

Hey do you think he was suggesting that the Tail Gunners should have been more accurate??????

Cheers and thanks for sharing your encounter with us.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by PeterPanPan

Flight Lieutenant John Greenwood flew Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain with RAF 253 Squadron. He shot down a Heinkel over Farnborough in August 1940. He is now 91.

Through a mutual friend, I managed to show him this ...

... and here's what he had to say.

"As for the simulator I cannot pass comment for it was short and looked like a computer game which I used to play some years ago. I guess it is more like a game than a simulator. A hurricane would have been shot down long before it reached the Heinkels."

Pretty blunt you might say but pretty revealing too.

Hmm, what else he could say when seeing a flight combat simulator? I think he had very good eyes! How else he could describe a stupid computer? I think he have very good brains!

Remember gentlemen, SoW is just a game, even though it should be by far the most awesome WWII combat flight simulation. It will look like a game, as will all games we see in, say, next 20 years.

Respect to the veteran who told what he saw and thought.

[II/JG54_Emil]

Guys what are we discussing about?

This Hurricane is flying into a close formation of 9 He-111 with at least 27 gunners being able able to shoot but not doing anything until 1 second before the hurricanes pass.

All the Hurricane veteran is saying if you did it like that you were dead.


Now why do we discuss his memory-capacity, when it is about his experience?

[brando]

Actually - and I'm talking from experience - the older one gets, the better one's memory of experiences in youth becomes.

[Ninelives]

The pilot is simply saying that if you sit behind a group of bombers like that you wouldn't last 5 seconds. When faced with a group you flew through them to break them up. Some would turn around and leg it, others would carry on. The force would then be weakened and the ones that were alone picked off.

If possible you would aim for the gunners. Then you would take the engines out. Sometimes the gunners would be taken out on the first pass leaving the plane undefended. Other times they were too busy trying to get themselves out of the plane to fire back. Attacks like this would last a matter of seconds because there would only be a few seconds worth of ammo and sitting still taking aim made you an easy target for a 109 that might sneak in behind.

These are well documented in many autobiographies and I have been reading them for over 30 years. It doesn't matter how good the sim is you will never replicate real world situations exactly by simply lumping AI in categories of Rookie, Veteran etc etc.

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, that's simply because we don't face any actual danger. Just finished watching BBC's first light and it was evident there as well (btw, is it out on DVD in the UK yet? got a relative on post-grad studies there that could get it for me).

On Wellum's first operational sortie, Brian Kingome who was the formation leader can be heard telling them on the radio "right boys, off we go, one good, fast pass and out of here".

I think this would be a good reason to completely do away with scores in multiplayer, or to totally revamp the scoring system to severely punish reckless behaviour when flying at high difficulty settings, because the current system in IL2 encourages people to stick around against silly odds a bit too much.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by PeterPanPan

I managed to show him this ...

... and here's what he had to say.

"As for the simulator I cannot pass comment for it was short and looked like a computer game which I used to play some years ago. I guess it is more like a game than a simulator. A hurricane would have been shot down long before it reached the Heinkels."

so yo show a little 20 sec clip of a beta product that had many aspects incomplete or switched of, didnt seven show the sim itself and finished product, and you are surprised the 92 yo didnt think it was very "realistic"

once BoB is released and you put him in front of a big monitor with a decent pc and hotas controlers, and we'll see what he can then provide as opinion

untill then what you posted here is meaningless

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by zapatista

so yo show a little 20 sec clip of a beta product that had many aspects incomplete or switched of, didnt seven show the sim itself and finished product, and you are surprised the 92 yo didnt think it was very "realistic"

once BoB is released and you put him in front of a big monitor with a decent pc and hotas controlers, and we'll see what he can then provide as opinion

untill then what you posted here is meaningless

I hear what you are saying, Zap, but I love that a real combat pilot commented on it. I think we all know that the video was not a "real" attack run and that none of us would not attack a bomber formation in that manner. What the pilot said was absolutely correct but like you said, the clip was not a good representation of how the game is played.

Blackdog, my problem with AI gunners is not that they are insanely accurate when they are flying in formation, it is that they are no less accurate when their plane is maneuvering. Even when a bomber is banking sharply, climbing, diving, or TUMBLING, the AI gunner often hits you with the first bullet lol.

In hearing interviews and reading interviews with B-17 gunners, it seems they often gave a a potential attacking fighter a quick burst at long range to scare them or make them change their approach. They didn't expect to hit and do damage at those distances, they were just trying to make the other guy think twice.

In return, German fighters developed different tactics. One was a half roll as they passed the bomber to expose the heavier armor on the bottom of the fighter to the defensive fire of the bombers. Obviously they tried to come in at angles the minimized the number of guns that could be pointed at them.

In the end, we all know that defensive armament on bombers did not do an adequate job of protecting the bombers. When they went against fighters without escort, they got cut to pieces.

So I would argue that AI gunners are too good in IL-2 and will, hopefully, be more realistic in SoW. Sounds like they will. When your bomber is shaking, turning, and diving, it SHOULD have some effect on your accuracy lol. I know that my accuracy with my fighter is not as good when I am doing figured 8's and firing bursts at bombers on each pass while rolling .

Just MHO's,

Splitter

[BadAim]

LOL, I just can't believe this is still a topic of conversation.........What were we talking about again?

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by BadAim

LOL, I just can't believe this is still a topic of conversation.........What were we talking about again?

Old people's memories....don't you remember?



Splitter