Friday 2010-09-17 Dev. update and Discussions

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Sturm_Williger

Marching in high heels ... man that has GOT to be difficult !

Puts new meaning to the term 'Power Walker."

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by Jumo211

Well , here is the whole thing , more footage also available in HD
plus a small bonus at the end

I should have known you'd have the elite version mate That's awesome buddy, thanks for sharing.

[Jumo211]

I just did cut out longer uneventful crew briefings to keep just showing aircrafts and air combat action with gun camera and added bonus footage at the beginning and at the end with the desperate pilot waving his hands

[nearmiss]

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[pupaxx]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

This footage is simply amazing.

definately lots of features worth bearing in mind for SoW, whether it comes in release or later patches.

Simply

the footage you posted suggest me a reflection:
recently I dedicated some time to create coop mission in Il2 based on historical events. One of my preferred sources was 'The big show' of legendary Clostemann. In my life I read it at least 25 time, each time it results more and more fascinating and evocative. I try to imagine movie sequences at every page I read.
The mission I managed to recreate was the attack to the cargo ship Munsterland in Cherbourg. The description Pierre Clost makes is so vivid. He describes the approach to the harbour in the mist, and the violent flak reaction from several flak-boats that were the primary target of his squadron (silence them to permit typhoon squadron to sunk the cargo). here is the live words from author

1015 hours. The fog thickened and it started to pelt with rain. instinctively the sections closed up to preserve visual contact.

Suddenly Yule's calm voice broke the strict RT silence :
"All Bob aircraft drop your babies, open up flat out, target straight ahead in sixty seconds !"

Freed of its tank and drawn by the 1,600 h.p. of its engine, my Spitfire leapt forward and I took up my position fifty yards on Jacques' left and slightly behind him, straining my eyes to see anything in the blasted fog.

"Look out, yellow section, Flak-ship, one o'clock !"

And immediately after Frank Wooley, it was Ken Charney who saw a Flak-ship, straight in front of us !

"Max blue attacking twelve o'clock !"

A grey mass rolling in the mist, a squat funnel, raised platforms, a mast bristling with radar aerials - Then rapid staccato flashes all along the superstructure. Christ ! I released the safety catch, lowered my head, and nestled down to be protected by armour plating. Clusters of green and red tracer bullets started up in every direction. flowing Jacques, I went slap through the spray of a 37 mm. charger which only just missed me - the salt water blurred my windshield. I was fifty yards from the Flak-ship. Jacques in front of me was firing ; I could see the flashes from his guns and his empties cascading from his wings.

I aimed at the bridge, between the damaged funnel and the mast, and fired a long, furious continuous burst, my finger hard on the button. My shells exploded in the water, rose toward the water line, exploded on the grey black-stripped hull, rose higher to the handrails, the sandbags.

A wind-scoop crashed down, a jet of stream sputtered from somewhere. twenty yards - two men in navy-blue jerseys hurled themselves flat on their faces. - ten yards - the four barrels of multiple pom-pom were pointing straight between my eyes - quick - my shells exploded around it. A loader carrying two full clips capsized into the sea, his legs mown from under him, then the four barrels fired, I could feel the vibration as I passed a bare yard above - then the smack of the steel wire of the aerial wrenched off by my wing as I passed. my wing tip had just about scraped the mast !...etc etc'

in short...my mission resulted much less involving, the german patrol boats I used were top killers. The only way to break the wall of their return fire was to sunk them, but with the on board armament of Spit there was not story.
I would like SOW will be implemented with such feature like the possibility of scare away the servants of flak or any other vehicle or smal ship or at least to reduce their effectiveness if generously spayed with bullets.
I'd like also the possibility, in aerial combat, for AI to accept or not the engagement if in disadvantaged tactic position, or disengage when in difficulty.
During 'circus' missions the RAF conducted heavy sweeps to induce Luftwaffe to take off and sustain combat. LW soon understood this trick and often rejected to be involved in combat.
That's all...Too many words to set out an opinion?
Ciao

[lbuchele]

I like pupaxx idea of making enemies more "human", in a way we could silence them with our guns in a attack against flack...
The way it is now , we are attacking bots, they never stop until they are blown away.

[Blackdog_kt]

That's a good point actually. It's been brought up before and i think aknowledged by the devs as well at one point.

As for attacking ships, it sure does make for some very nice and challenging missions. I don't know what the extend of the ship's damage model complexity will be, but it will be great to be able to damage smaller parts of a ship even when using guns.

I don't expect to sink the Bismarck with just a rack of .303s, but being able to put a couple of exposed AA guns or their crews out of action on a big ship would be cool and make for interesting and varied missions, eg the fighter escort suppressing flak on the target ship so that the slow-movers can get in and hit it properly.

In a similar fashion, it would be just as welcome and quite realistic to be able to sink smaller vessels with gunfire from heavy guns. Armed trawlers might as well be sunk by machine gun fire alone, same for freighters carrying sensitive cargo as long as they could be progressively damaged so that they sink after some time by secondary damage. For example, strafing an unarmored freighter that has ammo containers or fuel drumms on its decks and in its cargo holds.

Finally, and this is visible in some gun camera films floating around, even destroyers could be sunk by concentrated gunfire and a bit of luck, or just by cannon armed aircraft using a combination of the on-board armament and bombs/rockets. I think a flight of mosquitos with their battery of 20mm cannons, rockets or even the 57mm cannon on the tsetse variant would have little trouble in severely damaging or even sinking smaller warships.

Short version: Guns have almost no effect at all on ships in IL2, it would be welcome if this could be changed in SoW

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

That's a good point actually. It's been brought up before and i think aknowledged by the devs as well at one point.

As for attacking ships, it sure does make for some very nice and challenging missions. I don't know what the extend of the ship's damage model complexity will be, but it will be great to be able to damage smaller parts of a ship even when using guns.

I don't expect to sink the Bismarck with just a rack of .303s, but being able to put a couple of exposed AA guns or their crews out of action on a big ship would be cool and make for interesting and varied missions, eg the fighter escort suppressing flak on the target ship so that the slow-movers can get in and hit it properly.

In a similar fashion, it would be just as welcome and quite realistic to be able to sink smaller vessels with gunfire from heavy guns. Armed trawlers might as well be sunk by machine gun fire alone, same for freighters carrying sensitive cargo as long as they could be progressively damaged so that they sink after some time by secondary damage. For example, strafing an unarmored freighter that has ammo containers or fuel drumms on its decks and in its cargo holds.

Finally, and this is visible in some gun camera films floating around, even destroyers could be sunk by concentrated gunfire and a bit of luck, or just by cannon armed aircraft using a combination of the on-board armament and bombs/rockets. I think a flight of mosquitos with their battery of 20mm cannons, rockets or even the 57mm cannon on the tsetse variant would have little trouble in severely damaging or even sinking smaller warships.

Short version: Guns have almost no effect at all on ships in IL2, it would be welcome if this could be changed in SoW

Excerpt from debriefing interview with Captain Joe Foss, USMC, Medal of Honor, Executive Officer VMF-121 which flew Wildcats and Corsairs:

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Aircraft/VMF-121/

Originally Posted by Joe Foss, USMC, MoH

Q. Do you feel that fighter strafing is worth while in making the torpedo and bombing attacks more effective?

A. There's a lot of pro and con on that because sometimes it will cost you about 50% of your fighters. You really lose the fighters on that deal. When you do get out and get out alive on a strafing attack on warships, you just aren't good, you're lucky.

Q. It does silence the anti-aircraft?

A. Yes, it does on destroyers and transports, but on cruisers and battleships the anti-aircraft keeps pegging away. The only thing that I silenced on the battleship was pompom guns. The anti-aircraft there was still plenty of that around - I got one hit right under my wing. I had an idea of turning one way but just happened to turn the other way. It hit where I would have been.


Q. What was the effect of the strafing on the ships?

A. Sometimes it'll start a fire on a cargo ship, and on the troop transports the decks are just packed with men. When you strafe the deck on a troop transport, you really do some damage to personnel. When you strafe a destroyer, that's the end of anti-aircraft from that destroyer, if you're placing them good, up and down the deck. They'll stop shooting at you when you get to about 3000 feet.

There were two destroyers that came in one afternoon. Broad daylight around Savo Island, and they saw two of our little old corvettes. These two corvettes saw the destroyers coming, and started on down the channel, trying to outrun them. The destroyers cut loose and had them well bracketed. When the little fellows saw there was no use trying to run, they just turned and headed straight towards the two destroyers, shooting full blast with their 3-inch. I'll swear that one was sinking - there was a squirt of water coming up - and they were still shooting at the Jap destroyer, All the men on the two corvettes were saved. Then we went out and strafed the Japs. After they cleared Savo Island, one of them exploded, caught on fire, and sank. Then a little farther on, the other one did the same thing. They gave the last four planes credit for sinking two destroyers. But as for doing any damage to a cruiser or battleship, in my estimation, you don't do any. The main thing is to draw fire so that your dive bombers and torpedo planes can get in. When the torpedo planes were coming in on this battleship, the battleship would blaze away with big guns trying to cause geysers so that the torpedo planes would fly into them. They did that all day, but they didn't get a single torpedo plane. I saw one of Captain Dooley's hits, he got one right amidships. I was just a few feet off from the ship when it hit. Then I saw thousand-pound bombs hit on the battleship, and they still kept shooting their big guns; they never would shut up those big guns; torpedoes would hit them and thousand-pound bombs, still the big guns kept going.

[swiss]

- you can sink subs with a beaufighter(guns)
- you should be able to sink torpedo boats(never really tried)

Bigger ships: no.
Hell, you can't bust a tank with a 20mm either - no matter how many bullets you use.

[Tacoma74]

I've been itching for SoW to come out for quite awhile now. The game is looking absolutely amazing. Oleg and his team are doing an awesome job keep up the good work fellas!

I found a little something that i thought was pretty cool. Thought i would share it with you guys. Might be of some interest someday to the developers as well...

Can u imagine if SoW ended up looking like this:

http://www.stclairphoto-imaging.com/...g/P51_swf.html