Friday 2010-08-13 Dev. update and Discussions

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I hope this game doesn't get any DRM at all. People who don't want to pay can't be forced to pay anyway (if pirates can't get a game for free they don't buy it, they just don't play it at all) so why should the rest of us, the paying customers, have to suffer the drawbacks of DRM?

A cd-check, a serial, maybe even a one-time online activation (one that you can activate and deactivate at will, so that you can reinstall your game after a system upgrade or format) will be enough to dissuade casual piracy. This is the kind of piracy worth battling, because it's the preventable kind. Hardcore piracy can't be controlled and if they can't get it for free they'll simply bypass it altogether. So, why not focus on making money by keeping the real customers happy, spenting the time and funds on things they will want to buy, instead of on setting up DRM infrastructure or paying royalties to 3rd party publishing platforms?




On the topic of instruments now...



I think the main reason for better instrument visibility in civilian sims is the increased resolution. I don't know about X-plane but i fly FSX on a friend's PC every now and then and it's the same deal. You can easily make out the instruments even from a wide angle view. I fly with the 3d-cockpit and TrackIR 99% of the time and the only 2-d overlay panels i use are individual instruments that i want to keep track off continuously (eg, a VOR gauge that lies to the right of the cockpit, i might pop up the 2d-panel for that so that i don't have to strain my neck looking at it with TrackIR all the time).

If you couple this with 6-DOF capability to zoom in/out (even without a trackIR) and the possibility of saving snap-views individually for each plane, you can keep track of everything just fine. The only question that remains is whether we will be able to save our own snap-views for each aircraft, a la RoF. Just like some FSX add-ons have separate cameras of the 3-d cockpit from different viewing angles (for example, a camera looking below the control yoke so you can see the electrical switches), in RoF you can move the camera where you want it and "memorize" its position by assigning it to a certain key. This is done individually for each aircraft.

If this is implemented in SoW it will be a big help for people who lack head tracking software. For example, you could memorize a set of keypad commands and say that "ok, i want keypad 0 to always give me a view of the engine instruments, regardless of aircrat". Of course, the position of these instrments relative to the player's "head" camera center position are different for each plane. However, if SoW could "memorize" different snap-views for each aircraft it would be no problem. You would just have to look at the instruments once and assign a keypad key to that camera angle, to be pressed whenever you wanted a quick glance at your engine parameters.

Judging from the in-cockpit shots we've seen of SoW, i think the resolution is high enough. Heck, there are 3rd party high resolution cockpits in IL2 that are perfectly legible from the wide angle view, so i have no doubt that official SoW cockpits will be even better. We also know it will have 6-DOF head panninng, so i guess we'll be able to manage just fine.

Just look at that Blenheim cockpit shot posted in one of the previous updates, the instruments look so crisp and detailed that i got "cockpit and switch mania" and got a sudden urge to go fly something with clickable cockpits

Great points!

In X-Plane, one can use the arrow keys (default) to move your "head position" in 3D. So the down arrow makes you "slouch" and the up arrow lets you sit up tall to see more landscape and less instrument panel. It is VERY helpful when flying on instruments such as in bad weather.

The problem with these 3D feature is that they are resource hogs and can cost a major hit to fps. Many times people just use the 2D panels for that reason (amoug others).

One of the current "problems" with IL-2 is an inability to move one's head around the the virtual world. You can look in any direction, but you really cannot lean to the side to see around the cowling a bit while taxiing.

It's just me, but I am much more interested in such functional feature than I am in leaf sizes and whether tree trunks are visible from the air. Most people will have to tone down the really neat visual effects anyway to maintain 30fps or more.

Ideally, I would like a sim that fulfills the dual roles of combat flight and flight sim. I know that is wanting too much but all I have to do is fly a vintage WWII aircraft in X-Plane and then in IL-2 to feel the difference in flight model and functionality. I'd rather have better functionality than visuals IF I had to choose.

Splitter

wow the change for colour of the bullet resistant glass and the rest of the cockpit is great attention to detail.
Any word on possible solid release date yet? , I've heard they are aiming for Sep 2010 to coincide with Battle of Britain day, but from how they are speaking about the screens mentioning place holders and things it doesn't seem quite ready for that date.

[slm]

Originally Posted by Splitter

One of the current "problems" with IL-2 is an inability to move one's head around the the virtual world. You can look in any direction, but you really cannot lean to the side to see around the cowling a bit while taxiing.

It's just me, but I am much more interested in such functional feature than I am in leaf sizes and whether tree trunks are visible from the air.

This moving pilot's head has been possible in some other sims for quite a while - since TrackIR SW made it possible. I've tried it in MS Flight Simulator and it is quite useful during taxiing, landing etc. This feature also minimizes need for discussions about pilot position inside the cockpit, like in FW-190s. If you can't see well from one position, just move your head.

Although I must say that it would be quite useful if you could enable/disable this head movement. In other words, you could change head position to some place, then press a key to "lock" it and after that head would stay in place. You could still turn the head up/down and left/right. If you wanted to move head position, press a key to "unlock" it and you'd have 6DOF head movement again.

[zauii]

Originally Posted by slm

This moving pilot's head has been possible in some other sims for quite a while - since TrackIR SW made it possible. I've tried it in MS Flight Simulator and it is quite useful during taxiing, landing etc. This feature also minimizes need for discussions about pilot position inside the cockpit, like in FW-190s. If you can't see well from one position, just move your head.

Although I must say that it would be quite useful if you could enable/disable this head movement. In other words, you could change head position to some place, then press a key to "lock" it and after that head would stay in place. You could still turn the head up/down and left/right. If you wanted to move head position, press a key to "unlock" it and you'd have 6DOF head movement again.

Depends on were you can lock it, it would be wierd if you could lock your position when your leaning halfway up, since thats not a position you'd sit in for many seconds.

[slm]

In TrackIR SW you can toggle the whole head tracking on/off. This can be useful for example when you're approaching ground target and want to concentrate on that. Just switch off trackIR. Then you don't have to think about head movements. Similar situation when you're aiming an enemy plane. Switching off TrackIR for a moment can make aiming easier.

So my wish to lock head position is similar to this.

[lbuchele]

For some reason I prefer to aim with TrackIR on, just to deal with the extra difficulty of mantaining my head steady like a real pilot would.

[Sutts]

Thanks Oleg, another great update. That first shot is truly amazing. Trees look great up close too. I'm so looking forward to seeing the aircrew animations....they'll really highlight the human dimension of combat and could quite possibly stir the emotions. No longer are we shooting at just a simple lump of metal.

In terms of the map, will it be possible in SoW to zoom smoothly in and out of the map instead of the fixed zoom levels we have in IL2? I never really liked the interface in IL2 where you have to cycle through the zoom levels with the mouse click. Just a minor detail though.

Cheers

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by slm

This moving pilot's head has been possible in some other sims for quite a while - since TrackIR SW made it possible. I've tried it in MS Flight Simulator and it is quite useful during taxiing, landing etc. This feature also minimizes need for discussions about pilot position inside the cockpit, like in FW-190s. If you can't see well from one position, just move your head.

Although I must say that it would be quite useful if you could enable/disable this head movement. In other words, you could change head position to some place, then press a key to "lock" it and after that head would stay in place. You could still turn the head up/down and left/right. If you wanted to move head position, press a key to "unlock" it and you'd have 6DOF head movement again.

Sorry I was not clear. I have not flown X-Plane or MSFS with anything like TrackIR. What I was talking about was "in game" functionality where you could move your perspective around the cockipit using only the arrow keys. Heck, you can even move your perspective (head) outside the cockpit in this manner and leave it there lol. While the latter is not realistic, it is very useful to be able to change one's perspective inside the cockpit and "leave it there" for a while.

Even though I was unclear, your points are well taken. Some sort of head tracking software adds something to a sim.

I just recently downloaded Facetracknoir which uses face tracking software to achieve a similar effect to TrackIR (except it is free lol). I have only tried it with IL-2 and only in "free flight" training missions while working out the kinks. But WOW, what a difference in experience. While it does not (as far as I can tell) let you tilt your head or move along the X,Y,or Z axis for a change in perspective, it does track your face as a substitute for the HAT switch...you can look up, down, left or right "automatically".

Now I have to try it while shooting down enemies . I do know one key turns it on or off while flying so that probably helps for people that want to get stable for shooting.

I do hope Oleg and Crew look at some of the other functionality items listed recently in this thread. "Volunteering" for specialized missions such as recon, rescue, and such would add a lot to the game. I love me some marksmanship practice, but dodging 109's by ducking into clouds while on a recon mission has appeal.

I wish (there is that word again) that we could get functionality updates like we get graphics updates, but that information is probably too sensitive from the competitive perspective.

Splitter

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Great points!

..... to move your "head position" in 3D....... the down arrow makes you "slouch" and the up arrow lets you sit up tall to see more landscape and less instrument panel. It is VERY helpful when flying on instruments such as in bad weather....................

It's just me, but I am much more interested in such functional feature than I am in leaf sizes and whether tree trunks are visible from the air. Most people will have to tone down the really neat visual effects anyway to maintain 30fps or more.

the point about including the potential for very high detailed scenery (and drivable ground vehicles, controllable ships, etc..) is that if this is built in from the start of SoW-BoB then it makes the sim engine scalable for the future as hardware increases, and then you end up with BOTH aspects (the best of both worlds so to speak). if you dont include those improved scenery and expandable aspects of the sim while you build it, like oleg is currently doing, then in 2 years it is looking very out of date again and you have to start all over again

Originally Posted by Splitter

Ideally, I would like a sim that fulfills the dual roles of combat flight and flight sim.

i have repeatedly asked questions to Oleg and Co allong those lines over the years, but i dont think the idea has received much traction, and i am not sure oleg entirely got my point either.
1) for your idea of having a "pure" civilian flightsim using the SoW-BoB engine i think is probably already possible at release time. "all you need" is for 3e party to build some civilian aircraft for you to fly, turn off all hostile aircraft and AA etc.., and you can VFR fly around peacefully at your hearts content. and as long as the 3e party civilian planes dont use instruments more complex then ww2 era (or the single russian modern day test plane we get included with BoB), then any civilian plane can be built for BoB imo.
2) what i am hoping/wanting more of however is to have many non-combat elements and other war related features possible in BoB, and have included many more other aviation elements that were part of ww2 aviation in a "wartime environment". eg:
- be able to fly supply missions (and ask for fighter escorts if required), do parachutists drops, fly photo reconnaissance missions, fly VIP's to certain locations (mission being to get them safely to their destination with hostile elements posibly being encountered),
- fly in supplies and replacement aircraft parts to airbases and troops under siege to keep that airbase or troop formation functional,
- be able to use real life tactics to reduce fighting ability of the enemy by damaging their supply convoys and bridges and fuel storage etc.
- have non combat missions like lying new replacement aircraft from the factories to specific airfields using VFR, maybe even fly some civilian liners or transport mission (inside the same active combat zone that is taking place on the dynamic server), fly red cross evac missions in and out of combat area's, rescue downed pilots from behind enemy lines (having to land for ex in a specific field at a partic rendezvous time, rescue pilots from the sea, etc..

none of those aspects would require much time or programing to add, all work with the already existing elements and just need a few different minor elements added. it would open up the sim to a whole additional series of potential customers, and adds a new area of interest for current il2 users.

Originally Posted by Splitter

I know that is wanting too much but all I have to do is fly a vintage WWII aircraft in X-Plane and then in IL-2 to feel the difference in flight model and functionality. I'd rather have better functionality than visuals IF I had to choose.

a better and more future proof BoB-SoW sim does not exclude having improved functionality and features like you listed. you just need to make a strong argument to oleg about what exactly to be included, because imho he might not have thought of it or even seen it as something that might be needed to make his new sim more complete

[AndyJWest]

what i am hoping/wanting more of however is to have many non-combat elements and other war related features possible in BoB
...
none of those aspects would require much time or programing to add, all work with the already existing elements and just need a few different minor elements added...

Have you ever done any computer programming, Zapatista?