The Blue Sun Mod

[beepbeep]

This looks great!

Btw., what 7.62 Reloaded? An official expansion pack?

Also, is it just my imagination or did you really remove the only Zastava weapon that was in the game?

If you manage I'd be really grateful if you would at one point include some Yugoslavian weapons, like the M76, M70B1 and the M70AB2 (it was the gun I was assigned when serving my tour in our country's military and it's also supposed to be much better than the Kalašnikov),...

[R@S]

7.62 Reloaded is a stand-alone sequel to 7.62. There are some differences though, it's linnear and only have a handful of new items.

It's your imagination, the Zastava is still in the game Try the cop trader, Campesino special trader, or the trader in Ciudad-de-Oro. They should carry it as will the rebel depot traders.

If I had the models for any of those Yugo weapons I would add them, that's how it is

[beepbeep]

Originally Posted by R@S

7.62 Reloaded is a stand-alone sequel to 7.62. There are some differences though, it's linnear and only have a handful of new items.

Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted by R@S

It's your imagination, the Zastava is still in the game Try the cop trader, Campesino special trader, or the trader in Ciudad-de-Oro. They should carry it as will the rebel depot traders.

That's great news. Even though I didn't enjoy myself back, nowaday I tend to look back at them with fondness. Maybe I'm just weird...

Originally Posted by R@S

If I had the models for any of those Yugo weapons I would add them, that's how it is

Models? Like what (I've never done any modeling for games before)? You mean photos on which to base that weapon and data for it?

That's easily fixed:

------------------------

Zastava M70AB2 (with a light metal folding stock, the ones with fixed wooded stock are M70B1):

Calibre: 7,62 x 39 mm
Fully loaded and ready weight: 4110 g
Capacity: 30 bullets per cartridge
Length: 960 mm
Length of barrel: 415 mm
Muzzle velocity: 725 m/s
Maximum range: 6000 m
Effective range: 400 m
Speed of fire: 650 bullets/min.

Among other differences from the AK it's that with an adapter that comes with every rifle you can fire off Tromblons (Tromblon mines).

Tromblon:



M70AB2:


http://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:Zastava_M-70_.jpg

Some info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zastava_M70B
http://www.oocities.com/dswahilly/AP_M70.htm

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RT-20 (Rucni top 20 mm - Hand Cannon 20mm) Anti-material sniper rifle
-

Caliber: 20x110mm Hispano
Operation: manual operated, bolt action
Barrel: 920 mm
Weight: 19.2 kg with scope and bipod
Length: 1330 mm
Feed Mechanism: single shot, manual loading
Maximum effective range: about 1800 meters
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn56-e.htm

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/rt-20.jpg

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/rt20_1.jpg


cartridge size comparision: .50 BMG (top) and the 20x110mm Hispano (below)

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/20hs404.jpg



------------------------

ZASTAVA M-76 sniper rifle:
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn65-e.htm

Calibers: 7.92x57 Mauser; also 7.62x51mm NATO and 7.62x54R
Operation: semiautomatic, gas operated, rotating bolt
Barrel: 550 mm
Weight - rifle with scope: 4.2 kg
Weight - empty cartridge: 0.23 kg
Length of rifle: 1135 mm
Length of barrel: 550 mm
Muzzle velocity of bullet: 730 m/s
Feed Mechanism: 10 rounds detachable box magazine
Max pressure of gunpowder gases: 3200 bar

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/m76-1.jpg

-----------------------------

ANOTHER INTERESTING YUGOSLAVIAN SNIPER RIFLE

Zastava M93 Crna strela (Black arrow) .50 calibre sniper rifle

Caliber: .50BMG (12.7x99mm); also available in 12.7x108mm
Operation: manual bolt action, rotating bolt
Barrel: 1000 mm
Weight: 16 kg
Length: 1670 mm
Feed Mechanism: 5 rounds detachable box magazine
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn59-e.htm

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/black-arrow1.jpg

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/black-arrow2.jpg

[Ninja2dan]

Originally Posted by R@S

The realism vs game balance is a tricky one, and I tend to lean towards balance. Since I'm modding this game to increase the fun, not add a lot of micro-management that hinders the flow of the game, I almost always sides with balance. I could've added stuff like not being allowed to carry guns in cities, but that would mean that you'd have to leave your weapon in the car or on the ground everytime you enter a city. Or not being allowed to talk to character while you have a weapon in hand, being forced to shoulder it. A lot of time spent on pointless actions that disrupts the fun, just for the sake of realism. If I learn how to make those settings controlled by an INI file, then I'll consider adding them. But for now I'm not good enough and have so many other things to do, it'll have to wait.

I think that having to sling arms or conceal weapons would be going a little too far even it that option was possible. There are holsters in the game already that accept a pistol and keep it "concealed", which would be more than sufficient for that purpose. But if your character is on a mission where he is packing an M249 or SVD, he's going to be using that weapon shortly after entering the town. So needing to conceal the weapons like that would be pointless really, since you're about to start slinging lead all over the place.

And having to shoulder a long arm while talking to someone is also not needed. Just because someone has a rifle in their hands doesn't mean they are holding it in an "aggressive" manner that might upset or intimidate the person they are speaking with. So don't worry about that kind of detail, you're fine without adjusting it.

I've heard the argument that some weapons are only prototypes and has no place in Algeira countless times, and IMHO that argument is flawed. Where does it say that this game takes place now and not a couple of years in the future when prototypes might have been produced in larger numbers? Having said that, I do agree that the gyrojets has no place in the game, but my argument is that they are so bad and no fun, they're a waste of space. That's why they've been removed from this mod. But other prototypes, like the Jackhammer and such, are fun to use and I'll leave them in the mod no matter what. You'd have to pry them from my cold dead hands

I haven't really seen too many weapons in the earlier versions that I did play that would have been considered "prototypes", but the Gyrojet was a perfect example. What I mean is firearms or equipment that never was, is, or ever will be used as an actual production weapon system (or at least outside of the special-order market). The Pancor/Anderson "Jackhammer" is questionable, because I am pretty sure the USAS-12 was also in game already. The Jackhammer was a cool design, but never made it into production and never will. The benefits it offers is a 10-round drum, fully-automatic capability, and bullpup design for "compact" size over other shotguns. But the USAS-12 is also select-fire capable, and has both 10-round magazines and even 20-round drums. I've fired the USAS-12 many times in real life, and it's one hell of a nice weapon. Still, my point is that the Jackhammer is not really something that I would consider worth removing, but I would hope that nothing is used that is way off the realism scale.

That isn't just regarding "prototype" designs, but also the use of regular-looking firearms using oddball calibers. For example, there shouldn't be any .454 Casull firearms in game because it's a very uncommon caliber. You sure as hell won't be seeing ammunition in some 3rd-world country, and even in places like the US those rounds are quite rare.

Not that one has been added yet, but stuff like a 9mm AK-47 is another example of something that should never be added, no matter how "cool" it looks.

The new weapon limit is 4096, the mod has 400 variation of weapons, both modifed and folded ones included in that number. For the time being I have no 3d guy, but hopefully another capable guy will came along and help out. And I can always ast the HLA team if I can borrow their new additions, they've never turned down any of my requests. What a great bunch, eh

The game that I'm a DEV for is a mod for BF2 called "Project Reality". We have a whole team of model and texture artists, coders, etc and have already been using a lot of custom-made items. I wonder if any of our models could be ported over to the 7.62 system easily, in case we have something on our end that isn't already in game yet. If it's possible, I'm sure I could get permissions from the rest of the team.

Off-hand there aren't really many weapons that I can think of suggesting for future addition. Although I wouldn't mind hearing what else the HLA team has made lately. Mostly I was thinking about weapon accessories, uniform (character model) changes, and personal equipment. Those new maps bring a lot of new ideas to mind.

I had a guy working on realistic weapon characteristics, but he's been working on that for more than 6 months and never seemed to get anywhere. So I got tired of waiting and made a few adjustments myself, and I'm by no means an expert, or interested in it. So if you have time I'd be grateful for anything you could offer in that department. It's the WEAPONINFO file that needs to be altered, and if you need help I'll gladly explain what all the entries are for and what they do when altered.

Trying to get the weapon data in game accurate shouldn't take that much effort. If it is that difficult, then you really don't need to make everything 100% accurate to their real-life counterparts. The overall idea is to just make them "as realistic as possible within reason". You don't need muzzle velocities to match precisely, but you obviously want an M16A2 to be shooting hotter than a M1911A1.

Since I'm not a coding guru myself, I don't think I'd have much help to offer in that aspect. And it sounds like it takes a bit of coding and some serious testing to get things working right. I'd probably mess things up more than fix it, especially if your other guy was working on it for 6 months and still made no progress.

Then there's the ITEMINFO debacle, I was in such a hurry and had so little spare time, some of them are incomplete. Some better explanations and descriptions would be great, but I think that's too much work for just one guy.

Now that does sound like something I could manage. It'll be a bit before I could actually get to work on it, I'd need my PC repaired and the game running again so I can preview an item in-game while writing the description to make sure it all looks acceptable.

I'd just need to know if there are any character limitations, restrictions on certain character types (no symbols, etc), and how "detailed" you want the descriptions to be. Noob terms or Soldier terms basically.

Here's 6 maps from Reloaded that I've added, they're mostly walled off bases, some have a bit of forrested surroundings . Then there's 4 new Random Encounter maps, 2 of which is open space ones and the other 2 is winding passages. I dint bother making screenshots of them, gotta leave some things to your imagination.

All I can say is "Wow". Seeing those images, it looks like they are of the exact same quality, matching the maps from the original game. That's great because they will blend in perfectly without looking like some modified content.

The military-style design to several of those new maps is cool, and can lead to a lot of new scripting/quest ideas. The terrain is nicely mixed, and looks to be well laid out and designed to look like a real location. The Aerodrome looks beautiful!

About the map you have labeled as "Tutorial", I'm assuming that it was used as part of the tutorial in Reloaded. I'm curious, are any of those targets reactive, or are they just stationary objects? Most likely just stationary, but I can dream.

Originally Posted by beepbeep

This looks great!

Btw., what 7.62 Reloaded? An official expansion pack?

Also, is it just my imagination or did you really remove the only Zastava weapon that was in the game?

If you manage I'd be really grateful if you would at one point include some Yugoslavian weapons, like the M76, M70B1 and the M70AB2 (it was the gun I was assigned when serving my tour in our country's military and it's also supposed to be much better than the Kalašnikov),...

Yes, 7.62 Reloaded is an "official" expansion pack, but unfortunately it was only released in the Russian Federation and is only available in Russian language. There were a few people working on translating it, but the location that those posts were (SF forums) is currently dead/closed.

And which "Zastava" weapons are you talking about? I can't really remember there being any in the game. All of their weapons were just clones of other weapon systems. The M76 was a modified clone of the SVD. The M70 series were just AK-47 clones. The M84 was cloned after the PK series. Why have the original weapon systems and then add duplicate copies with the only difference in game being the item name?

I have personally fired nearly every Zastava firearm in production as well as their "parent" firearm that they were cloned after. And from personal experience, they performed no better or worse. That was just a false rumor started by people from Yugoslavia, simply because it was "their firearm". Just like Americans claim that American cars are best, or Japanese claim that their electronics are best. People will almost always prefer a product made in their home country, and claim it as being better out of pride. Nothing against anyone from those countries, Yugoslavian firearms were not of poor quality. But I just never saw anything that would say they were better either.

[R@S]

@beepbeep
Sorry, I should have said 3d models for the game. I saw 2 weapons there that already has similar models in the game, and by copying their models and adding their ini entries, they could be added. But I'm not in the right place to add new weapons right now, too busy with scripting.

@Ninja2dan
I think your 3d models can be ported over to 7.62, but one needs to use 3dsm 5, it's the only version the act exporter works with. Since I only have 3dsm 9 I couldn't do it myself, but I'm sure I know someone that has version 5 that could help with the exporting. I know for a fact that one can do a similar thing with weapons from STALKER, and those weapon models are of a very high quality.

To alter the weapon characteristics isn't that hard, it's just a matter of ini editing a few values. If you know what those values do, it wont take that long to complete. The difficult thing is find a balance between the weapons, and since the maps isn't that large one needs to respect the range limits to keep the different types weapons apart, from pistols all the way up to anti-material guns. And testing that is what takes much time.

The tutorial map, not sure what you mean there. The shots will show on it, the decals are there. But if you mean they fall when shot, I think not. The map meshes for the maps are a bit rigid in that respect, something the devs changed in Capitulum and Man of Prey.

I've gotten some help lately with creating new uniforms, there might be a new line of them in the upcoming release. I think I'll leave them faction neutral, but if work progresses with the Blue Sun Quests I might consider adding them to that faction.

There are 2 new weapons in the latest HLA I'd like to add, the Magpul Masada and the old German MP40 Submachine-gun. I think I'll ask them about it tomorrow.

[Ninja2dan]

I'm not sure what weapons, if any, you'd find of use from the game I work with. The majority of the weapons are all custom made by our staff, replacing the original weapons from the "vanilla" game. They are of pretty high quality in their core file, being "down-graded" during export to meet the poly requirements of the game.

All of the weapons are current military issue, with the exception of a few weapons used by the Insurgent faction. We have quite a few factions in game as well, so the weapon list is pretty large. But a lot of those weapons might not even be desired in a game such as 7.62, such as the RPG or AT-4. But if you're looking for military weapon systems, and it's not in BSM already, just let me know and I'll see if I can get the models for you. You mentioned you're a bit busy now, so there's no hurry on it.


As for the weapon data, that was actually part of my concern. The ranges used in the game are not extended enough to make full use of the larger-caliber weapon systems such as the Barret. I'd have to find a large open area to do the ballistics testing to try and get everything matched up properly, and I'd need some instructions on how to actually create a "copy" installation that will allow easy and rapid access to the testing location. Something to think about in the future, but I think I'll look at the other areas first.


And yeah, that was what I meant in regards to my question about the Tutorial map. I was wondering if they had somehow added the ability for the targets to be reactive, meaning the "fell down" when hit. I had strong doubts that it was possible, but figured I'd ask just in case. Oh well.


I'm curious, how "easy" is it to actually create new missions/quests? How well do they tie together, such as having multiple-outcome scenarios that string along like a tree? Is it basically just creating a storyboard, writing out each mission, and then creating some sort of script that ties them together?

Is there a limit to the number of overall missions used in the mod? Are there any other limitations or complex problems that interfere with creating new missions? Things such as max enemy/civilian characters per mission/map. I know there isn't a map editor, but is there any way to add objects to a map, such as a backpack that must be located and picked up? Or can this only be done by looting from bodies?


I'm asking a lot of questions because I'm hoping to help come up with some new ideas that will expand the mod further while we wait for a new version to be released (if ever). I really like this game, probably my #1 on the list, so I'd like to help keep it alive if at all possible. I've done a lot of game development in the past, so I'm sure I can come up with some useful stuff. I just need to have a better understanding of the game engine and its limitations/capabilities. You're kickin ass, but this is too much work for one or two people to handle alone.


Edit: I also forgot to ask, do various objects/materials have different damage/penetration values? Such as doors being made of wood having different penetration values than doors made of steel? And do the various projectiles per caliber have different penetration values? If so, I'd have to conduct additional testing during the ballistics modification to ensure their penetration values were in line as well.

[R@S]

Originally Posted by Ninja2dan

As for the weapon data, that was actually part of my concern. The ranges used in the game are not extended enough to make full use of the larger-caliber weapon systems such as the Barret. I'd have to find a large open area to do the ballistics testing to try and get everything matched up properly, and I'd need some instructions on how to actually create a "copy" installation that will allow easy and rapid access to the testing location. Something to think about in the future, but I think I'll look at the other areas first.

I've made this clever little character called a map guide, when talking to him he'll transport me to any map I like. I could easily add a few enemies on any map to easy your testing. It would be a matter of starting a new game, talk to himand he'll get you directly to the action. In combination with the shop cheat this would make it all too easy

Once I've found a suitable file host, and some spare bandwidth, I'll upload the Reloaded maps, fix the guide map encounters and send you the link. Just let me know when your computer is up and running.

Originally Posted by Ninja2dan

I'm curious, how "easy" is it to actually create new missions/quests? How well do they tie together, such as having multiple-outcome scenarios that string along like a tree? Is it basically just creating a storyboard, writing out each mission, and then creating some sort of script that ties them together?

Sure, if you have a little knowledge of programming C/C++ it isn't very difficult. I had most problems with the Object relations, but once I figured out how that worked it all became very easy. I just check the vanilla missions to see what functions are available and the copy them to fit my story. But I had a lot of help from Deadhead when I first started, and I really tested his patience I think

Originally Posted by Ninja2dan

Is there a limit to the number of overall missions used in the mod? Are there any other limitations or complex problems that interfere with creating new missions? Things such as max enemy/civilian characters per mission/map. I know there isn't a map editor, but is there any way to add objects to a map, such as a backpack that must be located and picked up? Or can this only be done by looting from bodies

There isn't any limit to how many missions the game can handle, at least not that I know of. And having a lot of civies or enemies on one map just causes a lot of lagging, so I've never tested to see if there was an upper limit there either.

Adding items to a map is simple, I think the function is "call AddSectorItem" nnd then you specify which map, map place and item. Easy piecy The exact syntax can be found in one of the random missions, nr 7 if memory serves.

I'd be more than willing to help you get started on scripting, I know from experience that it's much easier when you have someone to rely on for tricky things.

I also have some good news, I just got the source code for the outsourced mod and am looking at it right now. It appears that externalizing stuff to inis is much easier than I thought and I'm going to incorporate it into the BSM source to make them compatible again. What a sweet thing. A million thanks to guineapig for his generosity.

EDIT: I forgot about the materials and penetration. There's a file in the ini folder(AZP archive) called PHYSMATERIALS where you can alter the material properties. In the AMMOINFO file there are several entries used to calculate the bullet properties, such as penetration, tumbling, probability of shattering on impact and several others.

[Ninja2dan]

Sounds good. It might take another month or so before my computer is fixed, depending on what is actually wrong with it. I have done all of the testing I can do myself, but without secondary components I can't test anything else. I'll be taking it in for a diagnostic tomorrow and will know for sure what part is fried. I'm guessing it's the video card, and I can't remember if it's still under warranty or not. If it is, the RMA will take about a week. If not, it won't be until next month before I can afford a replacement.


Once my computer is running smoothly again and I have the latest mod version installed, I'll go ahead and start asking for guidance on learning the scripting system and which files need looked at. I haven't done game scripting in over 6 years, and even then I was a fill-in instead of a full-time coder. But I'll give it my best shot, learning the system will help get new features added quicker and easier.

It's good to hear that there are actually different data files to determine values of materials and ammunition. Without destructible environments, having some capability of shooting through walls does come in handy. But I'm guessing that the AI is not capable of such a tactic, shooting through walls at your mercs when they hear you moving around?


What is the "Outsourced Mod" that you mentioned? What does it do?

[R@S]

The Oursourced Config mod is a little thing that externalizes some settings, like starting money, merc salaries and random encouter settings. It also adds the ability to change the random missions available at the bartenders and traders. These can be considered a cheat if used the wrong way, but it also has a few other functions, like the collateral damage setting and the convoy mission fix where the AI solders on your side wont go hostile if you throw a nade in their vicinity.

Check the \INI\outsourcedconfig.ini file for more info.

[Chortles]

Originally Posted by R@S

There are 2 new weapons in the latest HLA I'd like to add, the Magpul Masada

Which version are you thinking of? The Magpul-exclusive prototype, the Remington/Bushmaster Adaptive Combat Rifle (ACR; Bushmaster for civvie, Remington for military version), or what The Firearm Blog called "The-ACR-As-Magpul-Intended-It-To-Be"?