Best General of WW2?

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by FM_Von_Manstein

The deaths of soviets sounds pretty good to me. I'm pretty sure the tens millions of people that suffered under Soviet occupation and communist rule would agree with that statement.

I think both of you should try to set your heads straight. You know. Youre not talking about some kind of puppet show with toys but a war and a terrible one at that with the death of many people which fought hard on each side of the conflict. You could at least try to show some respect to those peopole. Regardles which side it was.

But even with all of your love for the glorious Mahnstein maybe you you should also not forget his twisted side accepting the death of millions of jews and crimes regarding the enemy forces and even the own population later when they retreated back to Germany (field anweisungen and orders from the front proved that). Mahnstein was a intelligent tactician. But he was also a opportunist and his conections with the nazi party cant be denied. That many of them have broken with the Nazis when the war changed and did not came out in Germanies favour is understandable but it doesnt change that military Generals have welcome the Fuhrer and his loyal mens as long the army was runing from victory to victory.

If there are men I respect then it are Henning von Tresckow or Erwin von Witzleben who have from the far begining in 1933~36 seen the danger coming from Hitler and his party and started to get some opposition against him. While no one of them have been democrats they had some kind of honor. That for sure. I would even go so far to say that Rommel was a men that deserved much respect. But even he was more or less just a oportunist. Many of them had a lot to gain from the Nazis and as long they seen victories all was fine.

I am not surprised anymore from the strange ideals and thoughts people throw around in WW2 forums anymore either cause of stubborn feelings and false honor for the German Reich or of sher ignorance about the topic. What I am surprised is how this topic isnt still closed yet.

[Zeke Wolff]

Guys, if you want to discuss how "great" it is that Manstein killed all those Soviet soldiers, please do it somewhere else. There is several other forums you can visit if you like to discuss that kind of things. Feel free to discuss which General were the best of WWII, but keep it civilized please.

There is absolutely no reason to mention that you personally think that it is great that so-and-so-many soldiers from this-or-that nation were killed by a certain general. If this discussion continues in the same manner as before, I´ll close down the thread.

Respect the dead, no matter which side they fought on, because they all fought for something that they believed in, no matter if the cause were the wrong one or not.

//Zeke Wolff, Moderator.

[FM_Von_Manstein]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

I think both of you should try to set your heads straight. You know. Youre not talking about some kind of puppet show with toys but a war and a terrible one at that with the death of many people which fought hard on each side of the conflict. You could at least try to show some respect to those peopole. Regardles which side it was.

But even with all of your love for the glorious Mahnstein maybe you you should also not forget his twisted side accepting the death of millions of jews and crimes regarding the enemy forces and even the own population later when they retreated back to Germany (field anweisungen and orders from the front proved that). Mahnstein was a intelligent tactician. But he was also a opportunist and his conections with the nazi party cant be denied. That many of them have broken with the Nazis when the war changed and did not came out in Germanies favour is understandable but it doesnt change that military Generals have welcome the Fuhrer and his loyal mens as long the army was runing from victory to victory.

If there are men I respect then it are Henning von Tresckow or Erwin von Witzleben who have from the far begining in 1933~36 seen the danger coming from Hitler and his party and started to get some opposition against him. While no one of them have been democrats they had some kind of honor. That for sure. I would even go so far to say that Rommel was a men that deserved much respect. But even he was more or less just a oportunist. Many of them had a lot to gain from the Nazis and as long they seen victories all was fine.

I am not surprised anymore from the strange ideals and thoughts people throw around in WW2 forums anymore either cause of stubborn feelings and false honor for the German Reich or of sher ignorance about the topic. What I am surprised is how this topic isnt still closed yet.

Your a fool, neither Manstein or Rommel believed in Nazi Ideology or were members of the Nazi party. Both were extremely skilled professional soldiers who served Germany, not Nazi causes. The only good German general that was a Nazi was Model. Most of Germany's greatest generals were not Nazis at all. Same thing with Russian generals, many did not agree with Stalin's evil policies at all. But they served their country, the Motherland, not Stalin.

[Zeke Wolff]

FM Von Manstein:

The next time you call any other forum user "retard" or "fool" or any similar insulting nickname, you will receive a warning and ultimately, a ban. If you can´t post messages without resorting to insults to other forum users, don´t post at all.

//Zeke Wolff, Moderator.

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by FM_Von_Manstein

Your a fool, neither Manstein or Rommel believed in Nazi Ideology or were members of the Nazi party. Both were extremely skilled professional soldiers who served Germany, not Nazi causes. The only good German general that was a Nazi was Model. Most of Germany's greatest generals were not Nazis at all. Same thing with Russian generals, many did not agree with Stalin's evil policies at all. But they served their country, the Motherland, not Stalin.

You should read over my post again. Just a bit more carefully cause I will only explain it one time for you here (I dont want to sound cocky, but it seems you made up your mind already and thus I see it a bit pointless to discuss that).

If you dont know about the word "oportunism" then you should eventualy also google that one.

Beeing a member of the Nazi party and suporting the Nazi party are 2 seperate things. Even the Allies (most of them) realized that after WW2 and have not punished everyone or dealt with everyone on the same level. There have been members, nominal members and confidants. Mahnstein and Rommel have been at least people on the level confidants. As high ranking officers anyway. It is more likely that they have been nominal members meaning they supported the changes of the Nazis particuilarly to the military. Have they been alone in such thinking ? Definetly not. But it tells a lot about their cahracter. Rommel had once the chance to talk with a captured SAS officers and he confessed to him what fine soldiers the Brits are and that both should fight the real enemy, the reds. But, if not for the differences was the answer of the SAS member, what differences asked Rommel. The things with the jews explained the SAS. And Rommel countered, that the jews would be politics and thats not a the concern of a soldier.

Many of them, Mahnstein as well have been oportunists and supporters of the Nazi party particularly as long the German military was victorious. That is fact. It can be read from dossiers, field orders, personal oppinions etc. all those things are free and available for everyone at the German Bundesarchiv.

Originally Posted by FM_Von_Manstein

Both were extremely skilled professional soldiers who served Germany, not Nazi causes. The only good German general that was a Nazi was Model

Not serving Nazi causes ? Well then tell us "Mahnstein" what kind of idea was behind the whole war and conquering of east from a German perspective. I suggest you to go and read again personal notes of German generals. They knew very well particularly as the intelligent tacticians they were what a defeat of the Sovietunion would mean to it's citizens of Russia and its satelite states they accepted the fact for example that the German effort to remove most of the Ukrain wheat would cause a very large death killing 100.000 if not Millions. Many people have known and read mein Kampf which was Hitlers book and described very well his targets. So there is no member of the Military that could simply say he would fullfill his honor and duty not knowing about the raid in the east. There is a difference between defence and attack. And that for a reason. Hands down not many army personal are saints. But we are talking about the Mahnsteins and other German generals conection to the Nazi party and their goals. To say that they had not the same relation to them compared to people like Heidrich or Kaltenbrunner (chief of Gestapo) is obvious. But telling with al seriousness those people would not have served the Nazi party and most important Hitler as willing deeds is quite wrong as well.